[Zelandakh]

aguahombre, on 2014-July-02, 10:31, said:

I always assumed graded gsf responses --variable depending on the number of steps available ---were part of it.

The problem is that there are multiple ways of playing the gradation so you have to have agreed that in advance, which may or may not be the case for the OP.

[blackshoe]

We're off-topic here. I already told you exclusion and gsf are off the table.

As it happened, I bid 6♣.

[Winstonm]

I will bid an immediate 5S as I just made up this convention where a jump Q at the 5-level asks partner to bid grand slam witn nothing more than the Ace of my suit.

Works great - I highly recommend it in hindsight auctions.

[mikeh]

I am late in adding what I would do at the table. Our options are limited and we cannot expect a co-operative auction from partner very often, since we are looking at better and longer trumps than we needed to have (tho not by much, and this holding won't be a surprise) and, more importantly, we own 1st round control in all side suits.

There is no way that he is ever going to be the one to bid grand merely because he has, say, Axxx in diamonds

Grand is great opposite KQx QJxxx Axxx x...pray tell me how we can construct an auction that allows him to evaluate that, but not AKx KQJxx xxxx x?

I know, I should never give examples because there is always someone who claims that they and their partner always get these right.

I would choose 5♠ even tho partner has no idea about exclusion. Even partner will know this must be a void and an attempt to look for grand.

We may not get there.

But, if he cues 6♣ along the way (I am probably deluding myself that he can), that would imply interest and he will downgrade spade cards and upgrade the diamond A, so I will definitely bid grand over 6♣.

If he bids 5N, I have no idea what that 'should' mean...surely even a partner to whom exclusion is a deep mystery can't seriously think we want to play in notrump?

Again, I would take this as interest but with no club control...indeed, with an expert partner (which I suspect I don't have due to his or her ignorance of a common gadget), I would expect 5N more often than 6♣. So I would bid grand.


If, otoh, he goes back to 6♦, I am finished. Indeed, since I expect my 5♠ call to cause temporary paralysis over there, as he tries to figure out what madness has possessed me, the tank alone will bar me A non-regressive move, no matter how slow, won't bar me at all.

On the third hand (since my first and the other one are taken already) I would just blast 7♦ if I had no respect for partner at all.

[blackshoe]

I haven't shown partner's hand yet. She had:

---

The full hand:

---

One other North, one of the best players in the area, said she had the same auction (including jumping to six♣). None of her three opponents liked the 6♣ bid, but she stood her ground on it in the post mortem. Her partner bid 6♦ and they played it there. Two pairs got to seven. One of them I'm pretty sure will have both Exclusion and GSF in their toolbox. I'll see if I can find out how they bid it. Their opponents doubled, btw, so they got a top. The other pair I don't know at all. I do know they weren't doubled.

I was down one in 6♣ for a shared bottom - one other pair was also in 6♣. I don't know how their auction went.

[neilkaz]

I don't like the 6♣ bid either. But it is simply impossible to pass it noting that ♦ is agreed trump. I doubt that 5♣ could be mistaken for anything other than a cue bid.

After reading responses from exp/wc here I have to take back my thoughts that 4♠ is exclusion as I agree that a 4♠ cue is needed to show a great hand. 5♠ could show your hand, but maybe this pd is capable of passing that! 6♦ could be a slightly worse hand that you hold and might not get a raise. Maybe best given your agreements (no exclusion of Josephine) is to key card and then gamble if pd shows 1 ace.

Passing 6♣ is absolutely inconceivable and I'd seriously consider a new PD if she doesn't understand why she can't pass.

[blackshoe]

neilkaz, on 2014-July-02, 20:43, said:

Passing 6♣ is absolutely inconceivable and I'd seriously consider a new PD if she doesn't understand why she can't pass.

What she said at the table was "I didn't know what to do." She used to be a better player than that. IAC we're no longer partners. I'll take some of the blame for that - for the first time in many years I made a comment at the table other than "thank you, partner".

[neilkaz]

@ blackshoe... this is real life stuff for normal players like us who work hard on our game and try to advance to a higher level. Once again, clearly anyone knows from her seat and your bidding that you have to have as many or more ♦ than ♣ so whether you understand 6♣ or not, you have to carry on to 6♦ a suit where you have 4 card support rather than a void. The usual excuses are: I didn't understand your bid; I have a minimum and wasted values; I thought you pulled the wrong card out of the box when you bid 3♦. The last excuse could be valid, but she simply has to trust your bidding and can't pass with a void. Nor should she concern yourself with worries about you pulling out the wrong bid card.

Don't be ashamed that you lost some of your composure at the table. You, like me are only human. Somehow, I held some of mine when 2 minutes after a new face to face PD asked me if I played splinters, she passed after (bidding unopposed) P-1D-1S-4C !! I said, "we play splinters you asked me two minutes ago and I said, yes, of course, they are part of usual 2/1" and she said "not after I pass first" to which I replied,"why can't I hold 20 HCP and a ♣ void and we have a cold grand? Everyone plays splinters after passing first"...
she says "well I don't" so I replied just take me back to ♦ then since you have 3♦ and 1♣, what do you think I hold?" Her.."a whole lot of ♣" She had no reply when I asked "then why did I open 1♦". Oh..she's a LM...but they sell those at WalMart.

It is unfortunate that we all are fragile humans in the end. People age, people slip...people my age play this game bcuz they love it, and bcuz they know that the mental stimulation is good for them and hopefully will slow down aging over the next several decades I can hope to live. You sometimes have to move on to new PD's, or suffer too much, which holds back your own progress.

I wish you the best in your new partnerships .. neilkaz ..

[Zelandakh]

The bid in the auction I like least is 3♠. So next question, if East had raised to 4♠ how would you proceed?

[rhm]

the hog, on 2014-July-02, 05:07, said:

I think you are off the planet. If opener passes, and yes that is possible what do you do?

After a diamond raise 5♣ is a slam invitational control bid and partner is not supposed to pass control bids.

Quote

Does 6c guarantee the D ace?

Sorry but it seems to me you are off the planet.
If you now commit to slam having raised diamonds with no honor card in diamonds by bidding 6♣ or invite a grand with no honor card in diamonds by bidding 6♣, something would be seriously wrong with your slam bidding or your hand evaluation.

Rainer Herrmann

[blackshoe]

Zelandakh, on 2014-July-03, 04:00, said:

The bid in the auction I like least is 3♠. So next question, if East had raised to 4♠ how would you proceed?

I would bid 5♦ with South's hand. Once upon a time I would have expected partner would do the same. Today, I don't know what she would have done. Question: in expert methods, would 5♣ by South be a cue-bid showing club control and diamond support? If so, would it be the bid of choice?

Over 5♦ by South, I would bid six. After two passes, I would bid 5♣ to show my second suit. If partner now bids 5♦ I would bid 5♠, albeit with some trepidation, as I'm no longer sure partner would recognize it as a control bid. I would not bid 5♥, even though I have the ace and we have a known diamond fit, as I'm now pretty sure partner would pass it.

Edit: I suppose she might bid 6♥ over 5♥.

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2014-July-03, 22:56

[Cascade]

rhm, on 2014-July-02, 02:37, said:

7♦, however, will not be such a great contract if partner has three small clubs.

If partner had the worst holding then we still have reasonable play. Therefore I am not going to worry about this possibility.

[Cascade]

blackshoe, on 2014-July-02, 11:19, said:

We're off-topic here. I already told you exclusion and gsf are off the table.

As it happened, I bid 6♣.

If I am forced to guess I bid 7d and nothing that partner might pass before then.

[drinbet]

5!S seems easy enough to be exclusion, can be any other thing here?

[Zelandakh]

drinbet, on 2014-July-06, 07:23, said:

5!S seems easy enough to be exclusion, can be any other thing here?

You must play in very exalted cirecles if you have never come across any player who has never heard of Exclusion, let alone recognise it as such in this auction.

[PhantomSac]

keycard and bid it opposite 1 or 2 seems so obvious playing no methods. It might seem ugly to purists, but you're not going to have a realistic auction where you have a better chance of knowing whether partner has the DA or not without bidding 4N if you don't play 5S exclusion or 5N GSF. I mean, what are we really expecting, we bid 4S then 5H over 5D and partner with the DA and a crappy hand will always give us a delicate 5N? That is not practical to assume in a partnership that doesn't play anything, a majority of the time you're going to make 2 cuebids and partner will sign off twice when we have this much, then you will still be guessing. At least by bidding keycard you will know you're off the DA when partner shows zero.