[Zelandakh]

paulg, on 2014-May-12, 09:43, said:

We settled on this save that 4♣ shows 3-3 majors as we never wanted to go past 3NT without a fit.

After 4♣ how does Responder show a slam try in clubs, or a big hand with diamonds? One of the advantages of condensing 2 hand types (spade fragment or no fragment) into 3♥ is that it makes everything flow easily when Responder has something other than a 5 card major. Admittedly this is far less common but it is worth considering when you are giving very little up.

[paulg]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-12, 10:50, said:

After 4♣ how does Responder show a slam try in clubs, or a big hand with diamonds? One of the advantages of condensing 2 hand types (spade fragment or no fragment) into 3♥ is that it makes everything flow easily when Responder has something other than a 5 card major. Admittedly this is far less common but it is worth considering when you are giving very little up.

A slam try in clubs has to do so immediately and we were happy to give up on diamonds.

[Zelandakh]

The thing is that you are not losing anything important by including additional hand types in 3♦. For example:-

3♣ - 3♦
==
3♥ = <3 hearts
... - 3♠ = 5 spades
... - 3NT = to play, implies 5 hearts
... - 4♣ = slam try
... - 4♦ = slam try
3♠ = 3 hearts, <3 spades
... - 3NT = to play, implies 5 spades
... - 4♣ = slam try
... - 4♦ = slam try
3NT = 3 hearts, 3 spades
... - 4♣ = slam try
... - 4♦ = slam try

The only thing that you are missing here is a slam try in the major when a fit is found. You could easily drop one of these minor suit slam tries in favour of that if preferred. You say that you have a slam try in clubs available. That would be unusual and I am not sure what it might be. Most play 4♣ as preemptive and 4♦ as RKCB. Perhaps 4NT as Last Train? You could keep that and replace 4♣ in the list above with (after 3♠) a slam try in hearts and (after 3NT) a slam try in either major and what is lost? This is why I am generall not so keen on methods that go above 3NT with 3-3 majors.

[paulg]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-13, 07:14, said:

The thing is that you are not losing anything important by including additional hand types in 3♦.

The only thing that you are missing here is a slam try in the major when a fit is found. You could easily drop one of these minor suit slam tries in favour of that if preferred. You say that you have a slam try in clubs available. That would be unusual and I am not sure what it might be. Most play 4♣ as preemptive and 4♦ as RKCB. Perhaps 4NT as Last Train? You could keep that and replace 4♣ in the list above with (after 3♠) a slam try in hearts and (after 3NT) a slam try in either major and what is lost? This is why I am general not so keen on methods that go above 3NT with 3-3 majors.

This looks a very reasonable scheme. But it's hard to quantify the information leakage that occurs without a fit and the possible damage that a double of 3♥ might bring (especially as it could be a positive thing).

[steve2005]

lowerline, on 2014-May-12, 09:10, said:

3♣-3♦ with a 5crd major

responses:
3♥ = 3crd ♠
3♠ = 3crd ♥
3nt = no 3crd major
4♣ = no 3crd major (and don't want to play 3nt)
4♦ = 3crd ♠&♥

then:
3♣-3M always shows a 6crd
3♣-4♦ shows slam interest in clubs

If your style is to preempt on good minor suits in 1st and 2nd seat then you will always be leaving the decision to bid 3N to the responder. So if that's the case you won't ever bid/need the 4♣ response.
If opener is 3-3 in the majors then they are either 3=3=1=6 or 3=3=0=7, so why not show which shape you have?
4♣: 3=3=1=6
4♦: 3=3=0=7
course if you open 3♣ on garbage you can use 4♣ for that with no 3M, 4♦: 3=3=1=6, 4♥: 3=3=0=7

[benlessard]

Late here but 3D ask asking for 3M was suggested by Rosenkraz its in one of the Romex book. Im quite a fan of Rosenkraz way of thinking for many things.

Our 3C preempt is sound since we have 2NT available for garb preempt one minor.

3D= ask for 3M (or keyc in clubs) any 4 club rebid by responder is Rkc in clubs (except 3C-4C).

3C-3D-??

3H= no M
3S = 3H no 3S
3NT = 3S no 3H

rest is 3316,3307 replying clubs keycards (cant bypass 4H),

3C-3D
3H-??

3S (both M 5-5 or 5-6)
3NT to play
4C = clubs rkc

My guess at the time was that some 5S/5H are willing to force to 4M but some arent also I wanted to be in 4H when 22 vs 56. Note our 3C are sound so that why 3Nt might make even if hand is misfit. I also tought that knowing a little bit more about opener shape before making a Rkc in clubs was a good idea. If ive got a huge bal hand with 4c & 4D the chance partner got 3M is good.


Didnt bring a lot of positive result so far. I think our only gain was one hand where keycarding in 4C instead of 4D made a difference.

Im wondering if responder is 56?? and opener is 2137 or 2147 should opener pass 4H or correct to 4S ?