[steve2005]

In SAYC say you have hand that had no 4-card major and 2♦ and either a balanced hand with 18 hcp or a forcing raise in clubs. in both cases you don't have a bid the later because there is no forcing raise over a minor in SAYC. Am I right that you would likely bid 1♦
and not alert it?

well we play short club (balanced or clubs, but do have a forcing raise available) but pretty well require 6 to raise. also our NT responses are 1N=11-12, 2N=13-14, 3N=15-17.
this means with 3-3-2-5 6-10 hcp or 18+ hcp(we don't use strong jump shifts for balanced hands) we have no natural bid so bid 1♦
is 1♦ alertable?
we play 1♦as F1 does that make a difference?

[rhm]

If you alert a bid, which needs no alert nothing happens
If you do not alert a bid, which needs an alert, tournament directors and committees will breath down your neck.

Now guess what a smart guy like you should do.

I know this leads to an inflation of alerts, which in my private opinion defeats what the word "alert" stands for in English.

But as long as our rules are as dumb as they are....

Rainer Herrmann

[Zelandakh]

Does Canada use the ACBL alert rules? If so then you should alert as the response has "a potentially unexpected meaning". Since alerting rules are different in different jurisdictions you do need to say under which you are playing. There is also a Laws section of BBF that specialises in such questions (I would recommend "Simple Rulings").

[paulg]

steve2005, on 2014-February-22, 22:51, said:

... we have no natural bid so bid 1♦

In most jurisdictions this statement is sufficient to make the call alertable.

[helene_t]

In practice people never alert this since it is the way people are taught to bid before they learn about forcing raises and before they learn about the alert card. At least here in England and in the Netherlands.

Maybe it is different in places where beginners don't learn the principle that they can always fake a minor suit if they are short of forcing options.

[ArtK78]

If 1♦ can be bid on hands unsuitable for any other call IN ADDITION TO THE USUAL NATURAL DIAMOND RESPONSES then it is alertable. All you have to say is that most of the time it is natural, but it is also bid on hands which are unsuitable for any other call, such as balanced strong hands with more than 17 HCP.

Why do you have to bid 1♦ on 3-3-2-5 6-10 HCP? Why not bid 1NT?

[Zelandakh]

helene_t, on 2014-February-24, 08:46, said:

In practice people never alert this since it is the way people are taught to bid before they learn about forcing raises and before they learn about the alert card. At least here in England and in the Netherlands.

Having played some in England I could not imagine not alerting this there. It is certainly not something that was ever taught to me.

Also,

ArtK78, on 2014-February-24, 08:54, said:

Why do you have to bid 1♦ on 3-3-2-5 6-10 HCP? Why not bid 1NT?

steve2005, on 2014-February-22, 22:51, said:

our NT responses are 1N=11-12

[fromageGB]

helene_t, on 2014-February-24, 08:46, said:

In practice people never alert this since it is the way people are taught to bid before they learn about forcing raises and before they learn about the alert card. At least here in England and in the Netherlands.

Maybe it is different in places where beginners don't learn the principle that they can always fake a minor suit if they are short of forcing options.

I've never heard of faking a 1♦ response. Yes it can be articial; twalsh - alerted, montreal - alerted, but if 1♦ denies a 4 card major (montreal extreme?) and does not guarantee 3 cards I would expect an alert. I am sure the UK regulations would agree.

This post has been edited by fromageGB: 2014-February-27, 12:10