[SNTSNT7]

1C-Dbl-Pass-2H-Pass-2S
What is meaning of 2S by the doubler? Very strong hand with 5 Spades? No Heart support and just 4 spades?

Thank you!

[MrAce]

SNTSNT7, on 2014-February-04, 00:59, said:

1C-Dbl-Pass-2H-Pass-2S
What is meaning of 2S by the doubler? Very strong hand with 5 Spades? No Heart support and just 4 spades?

Thank you!

No 4 card ♥ supp and a hand which was too strong to overcall spades previously. It is 5+ spades.

Also keep in mind when pd doubles and then bids a new suit against your weak response, you should no longer expect him to hold support for all unbid suits.

[Antrax]

That's true, but note that 2♥ is not the weak response here. Everything else is right - if doubler has no support for an unbid suit and not enough strength for double-then-bid, then they should pass. So, 2♠ can't show lack of support for hearts and a hand that's not very strong.

[MrAce]

Yes sorry, i did not notice there was a jump response.

[aguahombre]

A side note: the hand suggested in the OP ---no heart support and just four Spades might reconsider their original Double of 1C unless huge. The BIG hands with (say) 4-2-X-X balanced (but too strong for 1NT O/C) can bid some number of NT over 2H or cue clubs.

[ahydra]

A lot comes down to how you play the jump response. For most it's about 8-11 HCPs so opener must bid on with (a good) 14 in case there is game. I would expect the 2S bid therefore to simply be natural and constructive - and forcing for one round.

This is another reason why I like to play jump responses as promising 5+ cards (cf. some other thread). Then opener can raise with 3 which makes finding the right contract much easier.

ahydra

[the hog]

2S is forcing, showing a big hand and 5+S. Opener cannot have 4S and no H support otherwise she would not have doubled first unless huge.

[SNTSNT7]

Thank you all! What if doubler has minimum TOD strength with three not so good looking hearts and four spades? There could be much better Spades fit than Hearts. Can't 2H bidder figure out that partner is very unlikely to have Double-and-Bid strength?

[SNTSNT7]

ahydra, I actually like jumping with 5+ suit, too. But what do you do with 9-11 hands with no 5-card suit to jump in?

[the hog]

SNTSNT7, on 2014-February-05, 00:48, said:

Thank you all! What if doubler has minimum TOD strength with three not so good looking hearts and four spades? There could be much better Spades fit than Hearts. Can't 2H bidder figure out that partner is very unlikely to have Double-and-Bid strength?

Then presumably responder would have bid 2C to show 2 places to play.

[Vampyr]

SNTSNT7, on 2014-February-05, 00:49, said:

ahydra, I actually like jumping with 5+ suit, too. But what do you do with 9-11 hands with no 5-card suit to jump in?

My guess is cuebid, but don't spring any of this on an unsuspecting partner, because it is very non-standard.

[wank]

with 4 spades and 3 hearts doubler passes. if his partner was 44 in majors, he wouldn't have bid 2h. yes you might have a better fit in diamonds if responder is 44 in reds, but then you'd have to go a level higher to find it anyway which is normally not worth it, so bidding on is strong and game forcing after the jump response.

many beginners have a fear of 43 fits. don't let that affect your bidding. just learn to play them better.

[ahydra]

wank, on 2014-February-05, 07:01, said:

with 4 spades and 3 hearts doubler passes.

If minimum - yes. But what about say AQxx Kxx KQJx xx? Here game could very easily be on.

ahydra

[wank]

then you bid 3c. 2s would be atrocious.

[ahydra]

wank, on 2014-February-05, 07:31, said:

then you bid 3c. 2s would be atrocious.

I don't disagree! (Though 3C would surely be GF, while we just want to invite.) My point was, saying "with 4S 3H doubler passes" was incomplete - something to watch out for in the N/B forum (cf. the time I learnt that "with 7+ of a suit you open it 3x", then I picked up a thirteen count with seven clubs...)

ahydra