[Jinksy]

Playing standardish Acol (4cM, 12-14 NT, 20-22NT), these were our hands:

AJT
xxx
xxxx
Jxx

vs

xx
AKQxx
AKT
KTx

Scoring was IMPs, we can't remember vul (though might be able to find it out if people think it's relevant).

With S as dealer, the bidding went 1H P P P.

Assign the blame for missing game.

[eta] oops - corrected the hands.

[Jinksy]

Nuts, I meant to post this in intermediate forum. Could a mod move? (and then delete this post)

Thank'ee.

[mfa1010]

North should make a noise (to summon a TD).

[wank]

obviously north miscounted his cards and his points, whereas south only miscounted his cards

[ggwhiz]

Turn both norths jacks into 2'a and I'm still bidding non-vul.

Turn 1 of them into a 2 and I'm still bidding red, 1 forcing notrump in my partnership and then backpedalling into as few hearts as I can get away with, 4 of them here.

That's at imps but at equal vul red or white or especially at favorable I'm pushing at mp's too.

[manudude03]

I might have opened 2NT with the south hand, but game should have been reached easily anyway. North passing is really bad and so he gets 100%.

[johnu]

Jinksy, on 2014-January-05, 15:30, said:

Nuts, I meant to post this in intermediate forum. Could a mod move? (and then delete this post)

Thank'ee.

I thought it was more of a novice/beginner question

Anyways, no blame for North since he is a beginner and is still learning the basics.

[the hog]

North should bid, of course.

[ggwhiz]

johnu, on 2014-January-05, 22:11, said:

I thought it was more of a novice/beginner question

Anyways, no blame for North since he is a beginner and is still learning the basics.

A different concept for someone starting out is how to steal, buy the contract and lose fewer points than if you pass, push them around in the auction stealing the bidding room that allows them to get to the right/comfortable contract etc.

This one hits gold when you can make game but the others are valid tactics that can be tough to get your head around starting out and what I would be thinking of at first with the north hand rather than game.

[johnu]

ggwhiz, on 2014-January-05, 22:51, said:

A different concept for someone starting out is how to steal, buy the contract and lose fewer points than if you pass, push them around in the auction stealing the bidding room that allows them to get to the right/comfortable contract etc.

This one hits gold when you can make game but the others are valid tactics that can be tough to get your head around starting out and what I would be thinking of at first with the north hand rather than game.

Hmmm, I would just be thinking, "bid your hand". This evaluates to a clear responding hand in my mind, so I bid.

[ArtK78]

I don't even know why this was posted. The North hand has a clear response to a one bid, so he should make one. The only excuse for not bidding on the North hand is that NS is playing a system with limited openings (strong club systems, for example), but the OP says NS was playing ACOL. Now, I don't know a whole lot about ACOL, but I do know that any 6 count is worth a bid in response to an opening bid.

[billw55]

ArtK78, on 2014-January-06, 08:22, said:

I don't even know why this was posted. The North hand has a clear response to a one bid, so he should make one. The only excuse for not bidding on the North hand is that NS is playing a system with limited openings (strong club systems, for example), but the OP says NS was playing ACOL. Now, I don't know a whole lot about ACOL, but I do know that any 6 count is worth a bid in response to an opening bid.

I might be able to construct a 6-count that I would pass (how about Qxx Jx Qxxx Jxxx). But with an AJT, no way never ever, 100% north.

[ArtK78]

billw55, on 2014-January-06, 08:58, said:

I might be able to construct a 6-count that I would pass (how about Qxx Jx Qxxx Jxxx). But with an AJT, no way never ever, 100% north.

You might choose to evaluate this hand as less than 6 HCP. But even then I would respond.

Partner could have a balanced 19 count, and this smattering of quacks might be enough to produce game. Or partner could have a strong two suiter just short of some strong bid. Even if that is not the case, 1♥ might not be your best contract.

But I am sure that you know all that. Clearly, passing 1♥ is taking a position.

[billw55]

ArtK78, on 2014-January-06, 09:20, said:

You might choose to evaluate this hand as less than 6 HCP. But even then I would respond.

Partner could have a balanced 19 count, and this smattering of quacks might be enough to produce game. Or partner could have a strong two suiter just short of some strong bid. Even if that is not the case, 1♥ might not be your best contract.

But I am sure that you know all that. Clearly, passing 1♥ is taking a position.

Yeah I didn't mean that I would definitely pass that. I would consider pass, still not totally sure what I would do. Mainly my point was that I could make a 6-count much worse than the one in the OP.

Just for fun, I tried the KNR evalutator. Result: K&R (Q63 J5 Q842 Q764) = 4.65

[neilkaz]

The blame is all North's, of course. Why pass?

[JLOGIC]

So everyones getting to 3N after a 1H opener and a north response? Because 4H is pretty bad and north might well not bid game after 1H 1N 2N.

I do not understand not opening 2N with the south hand personally. I also don't understand passing 1H.

[JLOGIC]

I guess 4H is not that bad since you will often get a spade lead from an honor (or from the KQ). Still much worse than 3N though and not a very good spot.

[ArtK78]

JLOGIC, on 2014-January-06, 16:42, said:

I guess 4H is not that bad since you will often get a spade lead from an honor (or from the KQ). Still much worse than 3N though and not a very good spot.

I think you would rather be in 4♥ than 1♥. 10 tricks are there most of the time that hearts are 3-2, and a few times when they are 4-1.

Clearly 3NT is best, but difficult to get to once the fit is known.

[kenrexford]

ArtK78, on 2014-January-06, 17:14, said:

I think you would rather be in 4♥ than 1♥. 10 tricks are there most of the time that hearts are 3-2, and a few times when they are 4-1.

Clearly 3NT is best, but difficult to get to once the fit is known.

I would imagine a ton of 2NT-P-3NT auctions.

[JLOGIC]

ArtK78, on 2014-January-06, 17:14, said:

I think you would rather be in 4♥ than 1♥. 10 tricks are there most of the time that hearts are 3-2

5 hearts, 1 spade, 2 diamonds, 1 club. 3-3 diamonds is possible ofc. Also some endplay chances with the CQ on, e.g. trump lead, pull trumps, diamond diamond diamond, if diamonds are 4-2 they return a diamond lets say, now you ruff and play a spade LHO plays an honor and you play a spade RHO wins and must break clubs.

I guess that combined with the fact that they might make a losing lead like a spade means you will make more than 50 % of the time with 3-2 trumps, but you are still basically just down with 4-1 trumps. Still prob a good game, tbh I missed the endplay possibility with 4-2 diamonds, thats a pretty substantial added chance.

Many people would probably misplay it and go after spades first though forgetting that LHO will pop with an honor and we cannot take 2 spade tricks.