[thebiker]

I live in England and have alwsys played 12-14 no trump and 4 card majors
Recently I hae played with a new partner and switched to 5 card majors and a 15-17 no trump
and am finding some dificulty adjusting in certain competitive situations

If partner opens 1C or 1D which can be a three card suit, and might be 12-14 balanced (weak 1NT)
I am having difficulty when the opponents overcall particulatly if its 1S

Playing weak 1Nt i double with 8+ points and 4 hearts, and with a 5+ suit and 10ish + I bid a new suit forcing at the two level.

Playing 15-17 no trump I find that when 1Mi is overcalled by 1S , that we may get to high if I continue to follow my old style of copng with interference.

I am looking for advice on how regualar strong no trumps cope in such situations.

Is the answer to play negative free bids, where new suits at the two level are non forcing?
ie 1C (1S) 2H is limited and can be passed

This changes the character of negative doubles, which now have to range from minumum (how minimum ?) takeout doubles to wide range and forcing long suit bids. How soes this/would work in practice?

Thank you in advance for anyadvice/tips

regards
Brian Keable
alais "alais the biker"

[barmar]

thebiker, on 2013-December-05, 11:43, said:

Playing weak 1Nt i double with 8+ points and 4 hearts, and with a 5+ suit and 10ish + I bid a new suit forcing at the two level.

Playing 15-17 no trump I find that when 1Mi is overcalled by 1S , that we may get to high if I continue to follow my old style of copng with interference.

I've always played 5cM and strong NT, and compete pretty much the same way as you do. Once in a while it gets you too high, but most of the time it works out OK.

[lexlogan]

Negative Free Bids trade one set of problems for another -- the enemy may not give you room to describe your strong hands if you start with a double. Like barmar, I've almost always played strong notrumps and compete in a new suit as you describe. While eliminating the minimum balanced hands from opener's possibilities obviously helps, even playing weak notrumps you still have to allow for a minimum, unbalanced, misfitting hand, right?

[ggwhiz]

I agree with the others.

Negative free bids can be particularly ugly when the overcall gets even a simple raise and my preference is not to go there.

I think it's just getting your head around hand evaluation with different parameters, ie. with a marginal 2♥ call after a 1♠ overcall I've had success by passing when I have 3 cards in spades often getting a re opening double from pard, a bid from lho or they are in the wrong spot. Adopting negative free bids could just make the learning curve worse.

And by all means post a few specific hands.

[akwoo]

This is odd, because it's when I play weak NTs (though K-S rather than Acol) that I want negative free bids, not when I play strong NTs!

I think that your problems are that you are bidding at the 2 level with 10ish, rather than only with a solid 10. Just like a standard american 2/1 response requires a little more than an Acol 2/1 response (because the std. amer. 2/1 promises a second bid), the constructive free bid with a strong NT requires just a little more than the constructive free bid with a weak NT.

A hand like

♠ Qxx ♥ AKxxxx ♦ xxx ♣ x

isn't good enough anymore to bid 2♥ after 1♣ - (1♠); you need to be disciplined and make the negative double.

[the_clown]

akwoo, on 2013-December-06, 01:20, said:

This is odd, because it's when I play weak NTs (though K-S rather than Acol) that I want negative free bids, not when I play strong NTs!

I think that your problems are that you are bidding at the 2 level with 10ish, rather than only with a solid 10. Just like a standard american 2/1 response requires a little more than an Acol 2/1 response (because the std. amer. 2/1 promises a second bid), the constructive free bid with a strong NT requires just a little more than the constructive free bid with a weak NT.

A hand like

♠ Qxx ♥ AKxxxx ♦ xxx ♣ x

isn't good enough anymore to bid 2♥ after 1♣ - (1♠); you need to be disciplined and make the negative double.

Agree, alternatively you could bid 3♥ showing a hand not good enough to bid 2♥.

Furthermore requiring a 8 points to make a negative double of 1♠ is too much IMHO, a decent 6 count with 4♥s or a 5 count and 5♥s is enough.

[Cyberyeti]

I know a number of the top pairs play transfers in this situation, never tried it myself, but about to start looking at it.

[Vampyr]

I believe that 4-card majors with strong NT and 5-card majors with weak NT are the better combinations. I am not a fan of the others.

[paulg]

Although I'm sure that there should be a difference I don't think many of us worry about it and we compete in a similar manner. It does help if you have a good idea when you'll find a three-card minor suit opposite - for example, with 3-3 minors do you open the better one or a specific one?

An area where I think it makes more difference is when your minor opening is overcalled by two of a major. Now you do need to be concerned that partner has a weak notrump and doubling with weak and even moderate hands can be unwise.

[paulg]

Cyberyeti timestamp=, on 2013-December-06, 04:06, said:

I know a number of the top pairs play transfers in this situation, never tried it myself, but about to start looking at it.

Some play transfers and some just switch the meanings of 2♦ and 2♥.