[Fluffy]

♠xxx
♥AKQx
♦AK9xx
♣x

partner deals

----- 1♦ (precision 2+)
1♥-3♥ (1♥ 3+ cards, 3♥ shows 11-13 with 4♥ and shortness in a blacksuit)
4♣-4♥ (4♣ standard cuebid, no agreements about how to ask for the short)
5♦-6♣
??

Yes, we will discuss how to ask for the short when the hand is over, but what do you do now?

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2013-November-26, 17:57, said:

♠xxx
♥AKQx
♦AK9xx
♣x

partner deals

----- 1♦ (precision 2+)
1♥-3♥ (1♥ 3+ cards, 3♥ shows 11-13 with 4♥ and shortness in a blacksuit)
4♣-4♥ (4♣ standard cuebid, no agreements about how to ask for the short)
5♦-6♣
??

Yes, we will discuss how to ask for the short when the hand is over, but what do you do now?

Do we play LTCC? If so, maybe I have some useful inference about his sign off over 4♣ but, if not, I don't think we can read much into it since he has horrible reds for a slam try over what might just have been a mild try by us.

What would 3♠ by us, over 3♥, have meant? Assuming it would be a cuebid agreeing hearts, he knows we are off the spade suit, yet he made a try cooperating for grand. So he has the spade A or a void. A void seems unlikely, since the opps hold 10 spades and all the honours, plus now surely he has an easy slam move over 4♣...we can't give him even 11 hcp in the other 3 suits and a spade void and a signoff. So he has the spade A and a club cuebid.

He isn't likely to have short clubs....it isn't impossible but it is improbable.

So I'd guess more often than not something like 1=4=4=4/1=4=5=3/1=4=3=5...I assume that 6 clubs would open 2♣ even with a major? And maybe 1=4=3=5 would?

Anyway, I have no way of knowing if he has cuebid KQx (as one example) or Axx, since he has no idea which control I cuebid!

I am really, really torn between the 'master bid', as Reese would probably call it, of 6♦ and simply giving up.

I am going to vote for giving up, via 6♥.

For one thing, I have a tough time seeing 13 tricks opposite, say, A Jxxx QJxx AJxx. On a red suit lead (they will only rarely if ever lead diamonds, but still....) I have entry problems if I play to ruff two spades and I will need trump 3-2, which makes grand against the odds.

For another, how does he know that I am not looking for KQx(x) in clubs?

IOW, can I be sure that he'd know that I wanted specifically the black Aces when, after we both cue clubs, I try for grand?

[mike777]

it would help if you mention how you bid 5c and 4 major or 3 suited hands in your strong club methods.

in any case this seems to be yet another time where we don't bid rkc in favor of a confusing cuebidding auction

[JLOGIC]

I think partner must have the ace of clubs else he should bid 5S, cuebidding a king at the 6 level in this kind of auction would not be good. If we need clubs we can bid 5D 5S 5N or we can simply cuebid our ace of clubs over 5S etc. I think it is analagous to an auction where we are unlimited and jump to 5H asking for a spade control, partner passes (in this case bids 5H) with no control, bids 5S with the ace and no other aces, or cuebids his ace with the ace and another ace.

That said, no way would I bid 7. Partner is very limited by his 4H bid, he didn't even bid 4D and he has the ace of spades. Can he have A Jxxx Qxxx Axxx? Sure. But he can also have A xxxx xxxx AQJx which he will think is a much better hand anyways if we have the CK. I do not think 6D says the DQ is good but the CQ is bad, and many people will not even open partners hand and will just stop in game so I don't even want to consider 7H if partner has no HJ.

[JLOGIC]

mikeh, on 2013-November-26, 18:46, said:

For one thing, I have a tough time seeing 13 tricks opposite, say, A Jxxx QJxx AJxx. On a red suit lead (they will only rarely if ever lead diamonds, but still....) I have entry problems if I play to ruff two spades and I will need trump 3-2, which makes grand against the odds.

Regardless of LTTC I don't see how this hand could sign off, it already showed 11-13 and it has 13, on top of that it has improved by partner not having a spade cuebid. Seems like an easy keycard to me but it can at least bid 4S or something. Partner is going to like most hands with stiff A of spades imo, I don't think he will ever have a 13 count. Good point about us not being cold in 7H opposite that hand though, if we bid a grand it should be 7D.

[Fluffy]

with all the details I forgot to mention 3♥ promises at least 5 diamonds.

[gszes]

I remain unconvinced --- having read the opinions above I m fairly certain p
is showing a club void with a hand similar to AKQ(x) xxxx QJxxx(x) void. This
matches the bidding perfectly (short club no dia control a min and club short
looks bad opposite a 4c bid). I can see no reason why opener would not
make a move beyond 4h with the example hands (stiff spade A and a minimum).
since we have already limited our hand earlier in the bidding and surely the
stiff spade A has to be really good opposite a partner that is slamming with
no spade control.I agree that A xxxx Qxxxx AJx is ugly looking but still has
to be worth at least one slam try opposite 4c by partner:)))))))))))))))))))))))))
I would unceremoniously bid

7d

especially armed with the knowledge p has at least 5 diamonds (I came into the
discussion late).