[manudude03]

I had one of those sessions last night where it seemed like nothing would go right. Matchpoints scoring.

1.

---

. All red in 1st seat, what do you open?

2.

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Partner is known to overcall very aggressively when he has the suit below the opps, 2S would have been intermediate (11-15). Your options are 2D NF, 3D forcing, 2C support showing or some number of NT (ranges undiscussed), your call?

[helene_t]

1: 2♥ is enough for me but I know I will be lolled at. Obviously this is a question of partnership understanding.

2: I try 2♣ and will suggest 3NT next time, unless partner shows diamonds.

[Endymion77]

1. Pass

2. 2♣ and pass 2♠, make a move towards 3NT over any other rebid

[HighLow21]

3♥ and 3nt

[rhm]

 helene_t, on 2013-November-19, 03:32, said:

1: 2♥ is enough for me but I know I will be lolled at. Obviously this is a question of partnership understanding.

No it is a matter of hand evaluation. I consider 2♥ quite aggressive, but that would be my choice too.

Quote

2: I try 2♣ and will suggest 3NT next time, unless partner shows diamonds.

2NT on the next round is enough. This should show this HCP range. With 13-14 HCP I would bid 2NT immediately.

Rainer Herrmann

[Lord Molyb]

3♥
2♣ --> 2NT, borderline for me though

[mikeh]

Pass seems blindingly obvious on the first hand unless you have a partnership agreement that requires this hand be bid, and if you do I hope that you disclose this to your opps, since few would expect this. It's not opening a weak 2 on 7 cards that is the issue...it's opening a hand with no values in a situation where most would expect you to have a 'good' weak two rather than a sub-minimum.

On the second, the methods are unplayable imo.

To play that a 2/1 new suit is non-forcing is ok, but not when the cue-bid promises support. Having to jump to 3♦ to create a force is just silly, since it deprives you of bidding space and, because it is forcing yet doesn't promise a fit or a stopper, makes partner's rebid a nightmare...how does he show a good hand? Does he have to jump now as well????

One can fudge one's way through, most of the time, because of the club holding. But what if we reversed the round suits, such that our clubs were xxx?

As it happens, I would bid 2N but I'd be pissed off that I couldn't bid 2♣, transfer to diamonds, and then bid notrump or raise spades or.....depending on what partner bid.

With a slightly weaker hand I might have bid 2♦ on the basis that it is non-forcing but (I hope) at least constructive such that partner won't pass with anything but a minimum.

[Hanoi5]

Pass and 3NT

[gszes]

2h very reasonable call with extra heart and a singleton (better than a lot of balanced good 6 cards weak
2 bids).The side 3 card spade support is not a problem since we can easily raise p if they bid 2s.

3N

Not crazy about chosen methods but since it is known that the overcaller can be ummm err stammer "weak"
for their bidding the 3n bid should show a balanced hand with around 17 hcp. Easy for p to pull to 4s. The
fact that lho is virtually certain to be limited to less than 5 hearts makes 3n even more appealing. The key is to
be certain this shows a balanced hand and go through some other route to show unbalanced hands.

[JLOGIC]

 mikeh, on 2013-November-19, 10:49, said:

Pass seems blindingly obvious on the first hand unless you have a partnership agreement that requires this hand be bid, and if you do I hope that you disclose this to your opps, since few would expect this. It's not opening a weak 2 on 7 cards that is the issue...it's opening a hand with no values in a situation where most would expect you to have a 'good' weak two rather than a sub-minimum.

Meh that seems a little harsh, the 7th heart is an extra trick so it's not so far out of range for 2H in terms of trick taking ability. At least one person in this thread suggested 3H so I don't think it's so weak for 2H that you should alert.

Personally I really don't mind pass or 2H, depends on your agreed upon style.

[mikeh]

 JLOGIC, on 2013-November-19, 17:29, said:

Meh that seems a little harsh, the 7th heart is an extra trick so it's not so far out of range for 2H in terms of trick taking ability. At least one person in this thread suggested 3H so I don't think it's so weak for 2H that you should alert.

Personally I really don't mind pass or 2H, depends on your agreed upon style.

Yeah, well maybe I overbid a bit on my comments, but I do like to make my views clearly known

And I did say that it would be ok to open this a weak 2 if that was your agreed-upon style.

It's not the lack of trick taking ability on offence that worries me, but the fact that I think partner should be able to count on some high cards of value on offence or defence.....on defence obviously only if he is short in hearts, but the notion that the opps can take, say, 3 tricks on defence or offence in our suit before we take 1 seems a bit much for a 1st seat vulnerable weak 2 with no compensating side trick. I guess I just don't play weak 2 bids red in 1st seat as purely preemptive....maybe that's old-fashioned these days.

[the hog]

2H on the first. 2C followed by 2NT on the second. 2NT is enough.

[JLOGIC]

 mikeh, on 2013-November-19, 17:35, said:

Yeah, well maybe I overbid a bit on my comments, but I do like to make my views clearly known

And I did say that it would be ok to open this a weak 2 if that was your agreed-upon style.

It's not the lack of trick taking ability on offence that worries me, but the fact that I think partner should be able to count on some high cards of value on offence or defence....

I dunno I think the whole defensive thing might be overblown a little, I assume you'd open eg KQ9xxxx of hearts with 2H at all vul (correct me if I'm wrong), that hand suffers from the same problem (defensively). I don't think partner just lights em up that often hoping I have the ace of hearts and if he does so be it, on this hand if he doubles 4S I at least have a trump trick and if he doubles 5 of a minor he might have it beat anyways. Ofc I would be nervous and unhappy about it lol.

But yeah obviously that hand would be better for offense esp if it's a 3N hand opposite the ace of hearts so maybe this hand just has too many flaws. That said preempting still works and I would like 2H something 4H if I have this hand all things said. I have no strong view about 2H or pass though, I could see myself doing either heh.

[manudude03]

Thanks for the responses, on the first, I opened 2H, and ended in 3H opposite AKJx Ax Axxxx xx, opps didn't lead a club and Kx of hearts was onside, so I made +3 . On the second, I bid 3NT, partner came down with 9xxxxx KJTx Jx x, friendly defense meant I was allowed to get out for -2 despite the queen of hearts being offside and misguessing diamonds (playing for 3-3 when Ax was on my left).

[helene_t]

I find it a strange idea that hand 1 should pass because it has too little defence. If I pass and bid hearts later it shows a flawed preempt which often means too much defence.

I have a reasonable offensive potential and almost zero defensive (although ♠Q could be a trick) and that is perfect for a preempt. Only drawback is that I don't want a heart lead, and that I am not sure what to respond to Ogust (if that is what we play). But that is not enough reason for me not to preempt.

[broze]

 manudude03, on 2013-November-20, 02:56, said:

Thanks for the responses, on the first, I opened 2H, and ended in 3H opposite AKJx Ax Axxxx xx, opps didn't lead a club and Kx of hearts was onside, so I made +3 . On the second, I bid 3NT, partner came down with 9xxxxx KJTx Jx x, friendly defense meant I was allowed to get out for -2 despite the queen of hearts being offside and misguessing diamonds (playing for 3-3 when Ax was on my left).

I appreciate it's all very easy to criticise after the fact but the first hand imo is a 100% blatant 4♥ bid in response to 2♥. There are loads of complete minimums where you are just cold for game; e.g. xx KQJTxx xx xxx.

As for the second the 1♠ overcall is just ugly. And presumably it isn't just a style thing for you or you wouldn't have chosen 3NT. I would seriously consider 2♠ overcall [EDIT: though have just noticed that this is not available for you] and probably make it (rightly or wrongly) but 1♠ is a zero and completely anti-partnership. There are aggressive overcalls and then there's that. There must be some element of "constructiveness" or it will damage you more than opps.

Your 2♥ and 3NT (though I prefer 2) are totally reasonable imo.

[gszes]

 manudude03, on 2013-November-20, 02:56, said:

Thanks for the responses, on the first, I opened 2H, and ended in 3H opposite AKJx Ax Axxxx xx, opps didn't lead a club and Kx of hearts was onside, so I made +3 . On the second, I bid 3NT, partner came down with 9xxxxx KJTx Jx x, friendly defense meant I was allowed to get out for -2 despite the queen of hearts being offside and misguessing diamonds (playing for 3-3 when Ax was on my left).

one of the problems with bidding with complete crud is that it has a tendency to affect how you view your partners bids/overcalls.
your p was obviously concerned you might have a hand similar to x xxxxxx KJTx QJ or the same type of dreck they overcalled
1s with on hand 2. The wider your range is for possible actions the harder it is to judge what to do. If you do not want to be in game
opposite a 15-17 balanced hand it is probably not a good idea to open a weak 2 its that simple (unless p is a passed hand that is)
so p will just put you in game with those types of hands and invite you with opening bids.

1s overcall has something like zero merit since it accomplishes nothing other than allow the bidder to hear their own voice once
again (hmmm were there bidding boxes or online?) Quit worrying about how partner overcalls and the poor results achieved
because of them. Stay steady and bid your hand accordingly. If you always bid no matter what excuse you have you cannot
expect your poor partner to make rational choices (we play bridge to use our brain power not worry about if its a crap shoot).


I would pin 100% of the blame for your two poor results on N for underbidding hand one and (over)bidding hand 2. I find no
problems with the south choices of 2h and 3n and I am a bit surprised the N hand didn't flee scurry hide from 3n and bid 4s
hoping to only go down 1.

[helene_t]

The first is a bit unlucky. ♠Q is a filler for partner's spade suit. Give p Axxxx-Ax-AKJx-xx and 4♥ is not that great. Probably South should insist on game, though.

[HighLow21]

 JLOGIC, on 2013-November-19, 18:47, said:

I dunno I think the whole defensive thing might be overblown a little, I assume you'd open eg KQ9xxxx of hearts with 2H at all vul (correct me if I'm wrong), that hand suffers from the same problem (defensively). I don't think partner just lights em up that often hoping I have the ace of hearts and if he does so be it, on this hand if he doubles 4S I at least have a trump trick and if he doubles 5 of a minor he might have it beat anyways. Ofc I would be nervous and unhappy about it lol.

But yeah obviously that hand would be better for offense esp if it's a 3N hand opposite the ace of hearts so maybe this hand just has too many flaws. That said preempting still works and I would like 2H something 4H if I have this hand all things said. I have no strong view about 2H or pass though, I could see myself doing either heh.

First hand: partner should bid game 100%.

Second hand: what an awful overcall.

[the hog]

 gszes, on 2013-November-20, 07:35, said:

one of the problems with bidding with complete crud is that it has a tendency to affect how you view your partners bids/overcalls.
your p was obviously concerned you might have a hand similar to x xxxxxx KJTx QJ or the same type of dreck they overcalled
1s with on hand 2. The wider your range is for possible actions the harder it is to judge what to do. If you do not want to be in game
opposite a 15-17 balanced hand it is probably not a good idea to open a weak 2 its that simple (unless p is a passed hand that is)
so p will just put you in game with those types of hands and invite you with opening bids.

1s overcall has something like zero merit since it accomplishes nothing other than allow the bidder to hear their own voice once
again (hmmm were there bidding boxes or online?) Quit worrying about how partner overcalls and the poor results achieved
because of them. Stay steady and bid your hand accordingly. If you always bid no matter what excuse you have you cannot
expect your poor partner to make rational choices (we play bridge to use our brain power not worry about if its a crap shoot).


snipped

I disagree totally. The 1S overcall takes away 2 bids. It is after all a 6 card suit. I would certainly bid 1S on this and would expect all my partnerships to regard this as normal. Provided this is regarded as normal, it is obvious that the 3NT bid is an overbid.