[Lord Molyb]

---

E/W play precision and therefore open fairly light, the 1♠ opening would be a bit sub-minimum. 1NT was forcing. N/S play 2/1.
3♣ was laydown if the ♦A or ♥K were placed correctly, and 3NT in the south turned out to be cold as the cards lay. 2♠= was a bottom.

Assign the blame to N/S.

[sfi]

Calling 3NT cold is a very strong statement. On any lead but a spade, South will be forced to guess the location of the diamond honours and is likely to get it wrong given the auction.

2C or 3C by North are reasonable alternatives (and I'd probably bid 2C at the table), but neither is clear cut. The damage looks to have been done by the 1S opening - I'd expect other tables to preempt and endplay N-S into bidding 3NT. The preempt would then help declarer to get the diamonds right as well.

This hand is IMO one of the big win areas for strong club openings. You can open these good distributional hands at the one level without partner going too crazy, and the opponents frequently misjudge.

In short - unlucky.

[wank]

north was asleep - even if your requirements for a 2c overcall come from the 1930s you have got a 2nd chance over 2s. you know partner has spades and is going to pass.

[rhm]

sfi, on 2013-November-16, 23:14, said:

This hand is IMO one of the big win areas for strong club openings. You can open these good distributional hands at the one level without partner going too crazy, and the opponents frequently misjudge.

Just because you have a higher upper limit in a "standard" system", why does partner need to go crazy when my rebid will show I am nowhere close to such an upper limit?
You either cater for distributional, low HCP openings or you don't.
I have a good six card major, good intermediates, a void and 9 HCP and no rebid problem.
To open this hand is just a matter of hand evaluation and probabilities. I have old books on ACOL (not my favorite system) recommending to open such hands.
Where is the big advantage here for strong clubbers and where is the problem I will have in standard, but not in precision?
If opponents preempt over 1♠ responder will assume or worry that opener has an ace more in precision just as much as in standard.
Say responder has 14 HCP and a misfit (small singleton spade and at most four hearts with long clubs), just tell me where a precision auction will deviate from a standard one and stop in a nice safe partial.
Just because the quoted statement is repeated time and again does not change nonsense to a valid observation.

Rainer Herrmann

[HighLow21]

Ya gotta bid those clubs. 25% is plain unlucky but you're never going to overcome that bad luck without North bidding.

[ggwhiz]

I voted no blame because although I would have bid 3♣ over 2♠, against this pair I expect to defend 3♦ making (or play 4♣ in the glue doubled or not). Perhaps 100% blame to the rest of the candy a$$ed field.

[the hog]

Lord Molyb, on 2013-November-16, 22:57, said:

---

E/W play precision and therefore open fairly light, the 1♠ opening would be a bit sub-minimum. 1NT was forcing. N/S play 2/1.
3♣ was laydown if the ♦A or ♥K were placed correctly, and 3NT in the south turned out to be cold as the cards lay. 2♠= was a bottom.

Assign the blame to N/S.

I would go off in 3NT if played by Nth. After the S lead and the D switch, I would certainly rise with the King after West's opening.If it is played by Sth you have only 8 tricks and need to play the red suits for the 9th trick. Are you sure that you will get this right?

[ahydra]

Let's try 3C over 2S. Hell, you might even agree to bid 2C over 1S if opponents open light.

ahydra

[RSClyde]

ahydra, on 2013-November-18, 06:32, said:

Let's try 3C over 2S. Hell, you might even agree to bid 2C over 1S if opponents open light.

ahydra

I think that's backwards: over weaker bids your bids should be more constructive.

[ggwhiz]

the hog, on 2013-November-17, 22:11, said:

I would go off in 3NT if played by Nth.

You would go off if played by south too.

On any auction that leads there after I opened 1♠, as west I'm leading the ♥J or the ♦3 and either does the trick.

[Lord Molyb]

It was only played in 3NT= at one table I think, spade was probably led by west.
Every other table played in 3♣=, don't know the auction.
Anyway, I'm guessing most west players passed or opened 2♠, so the diamond situation isn't impossible to guess right

[gszes]

no problems with first pass must be my early 1900's training but after 2s we have a
limited rho opposite a limited lho. We are looking at a 6 card suit to the KQJ just do not
see any option other than 3c here. Will it always be right heck no but it will probably work
favorably or break even around 80% of the time that's a reasonable risk vs reward ratio
no matter the form of scoring.

N 100%

[mcphee]

I did not enter a vote. First thought was should N o/c 2C, I think I would expect better as it has no value other than lead directing and fails to shut out the other suits. now it comes around to N again when W repeats his S, has anything really changed? You do not know if the E hand is Limit values for S, invitational for NT or other hands that could rain doom and gloom if we bid 3C now. So I can live with the N hand passing again.

In cases where N does bid, e/w can land safely in a D part score, and if S thinks his partner has his bid, 3NT failing.

[Zelandakh]

mcphee, on 2013-November-21, 11:46, said:

I did not enter a vote. First thought was should N o/c 2C, I think I would expect better as it has no value other than lead directing and fails to shut out the other suits.

Did you also consider 3♣, which seems to have the same lead-directing value but does shut out the other suits?

[fromageGB]

How about 150% to North? The first 50% for not overcalling 2♣. You may have been stronger for this bid, but it seems fine to me. I don't understand the concept that you need a high-values hand to make an overcall. The next 100% for not protecting with 3♣.

Edit - I did not consider an initial 3♣ as that is conventional for me, but if you play it as a weak jump overcall, then 200% to North, as that is perfect for this hand.