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Find 2 discards close decision, teams

#1 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 04:42



You play in 3N opps manage to block the spades but they do cash 4 of them leaving W on lead, what do you discard ? 8 and ?
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 05:55

ten of clubs seems quite normal, it only costs on 4-1 hearts (not stiff J) and Qx of clubs compared to pitching a diamond, and it gives us the chance to cash AK of clubs and fall back on the diamond finesse among other things.
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#3 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 07:12

Combine your chances and discard T. You can try to drop Q doubleton or fall back on the finesse. We need T as an entry to either cash J or finesse the .
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 17:18

This was my first thought as well, team mate discarded the J and went off when discarding the club was the winning action ( Qxx offside).

I thought the odds were quite close when I tried to do the calculation:

Pitch the club works when:

Hearts are 3-2 or stiff J, and (Q drops singleton or doubleton or the diamond finesse works)

Pitching the diamond works when:

Hearts are 3-2 or stiff J and the Q is onside or singleton offside, or Hearts misbehave and Q drops doubleton (but not singleton in theory unless the man with 9xxx pitches one)

This appears to be (67.83 + 5.65)[(5.65+27.13) + 0.5(1-5.65-27.13)] = 48.78%

vs (67.83 + 5.65)(2.83 + 50) + (1-67.83-5.65)(27.13) = 46.01%

so slightly in favour of the club pitch, but not by much, and this narrows further if (as was the case) the field isn't great and the hand with 9xxx might pitch one.
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#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 23:31

if LHO has Qxxx of clubs and the diamond hook is on a club pitch wins also.
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#6 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-November-16, 23:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2013-November-16, 17:18, said:

]

Pitching the diamond works when:

Hearts are 3-2 or stiff J and the Q is onside


Also I don't know MATH but it seems like you're counting Qx of clubs onside with hearts splitting as a win for pitching a diamond, but that is not true, a club pitch is fine in that case. Also if Qxx of clubs are on and the diamond hook is on, then pitching a club is fine. It seems like you count that also as a win for pitching a diamond.

If you did not count those scenarios as wins for pitching a diamond and just misworded it then apologies. If you did count those and still found a club pitch to be superior then hopefully it is obvious how superior a club pitch really is.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-November-17, 02:16

View PostJLOGIC, on 2013-November-16, 23:37, said:

Also I don't know MATH but it seems like you're counting Qx of clubs onside with hearts splitting as a win for pitching a diamond, but that is not true, a club pitch is fine in that case. Also if Qxx of clubs are on and the diamond hook is on, then pitching a club is fine. It seems like you count that also as a win for pitching a diamond.

If you did not count those scenarios as wins for pitching a diamond and just misworded it then apologies. If you did count those and still found a club pitch to be superior then hopefully it is obvious how superior a club pitch really is.


I wasn't counting anything as a win by virtue of it working when the other scenario didn't, I was just trying to calculate the absolute chance of each line working.

I think I've accounted for the scenarios you listed
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