[CSGibson]

Matchpoints, goodish field, not great opponents. You are playing precision, so I'm going to give you context for this auction:




1♦ is our catchall opener. It is 10-15 HCP, could be 0 diamonds if 4=4=0=5 shape. If I have 6 or more diamonds, then I will have 13-15 HCP.

4♦ is a splinter for spades.

---

4♥ would be last train, 4N 1430. Partner's splinter is not really limited - its any hand which thinks slam is possible if diamond wastage isn't an issue, but which wants to kick it to me.

So clearly if you want to bid this scientifically you could bid 5♦...but do you want to bid this scientifically at matchpoints?

[mr1303]

Can I not bid 4H scientifically here?

[chasetb]

After discounting my Q♦ and subtracting 2 from my A♦, I have 11. I would like to sign off, but since I still have an opener by any standards and a Max 1♦ hand in Precision at the start, I go Last Train. 5♦ is bonkers, I would expect a FAR better suit for that.

[MrAce]

If my opening is 11-15 and pd is aware of that, there ain't no way i am stopping b4 slam unless we are lack of keys --->4 NT.

chasetb, on 2013-October-28, 01:08, said:

After discounting my Q♦ and subtracting 2 from my A♦, I have 11. .....................

You may or may not go for slam, or chose another path to investigate the slam, but I really find it funny, in fact beyond funny, to downgrade an AQxxxx suit to 2 hcps by trashing the full value of a Q protected by an A just because pd is short, and then going further and downgrading the % 50 of the full value of an ACE !! I have seen extremely hopeless downgraders, but this is the first i saw someone downgrading a 6 hcp suit to 2 hcp.

I ♥ this bar

[Fluffy]

chasetb, on 2013-October-28, 01:08, said:

After discounting my Q♦ and subtracting 2 from my A♦, I have 11. I would like to sign off, but since I still have an opener by any standards and a Max 1♦ hand in Precision at the start, I go Last Train. 5♦ is bonkers, I would expect a FAR better suit for that.

I'd expect ♦xxxx or ♦Axxx for 5♦, I guess that's another thing I though as standard when it is not.

I would sing off in 4♠, we have only 8 trumps and opposite singletons work very badly there.

[the_clown]

I would bid 4♥. My trumps are good and I could have far worst hand for my precision opening. Not thrilled about the stiff heart, but still I think I owe partner some cooperation.

[billw55]

IMO the message of a splinter is: look for slam without wasted values. I have wasted values, so I sign off. If partner has a different message in mind this time, he can bid again.

[ArtK78]

Yes, I have some wastage. But if the ♦Q were a small diamond, my hand would still be pretty good in context. My hand could be A LOT worse (change the ♦A to the ♦K, change the red suit distribution to 2-4, etc.).

I bid 4♥.

[Hanoi5]

I bid 4♠ since I don't envision a good ending in a slam. Partner is short in my long/good suit and I'm short in his other suit. Of course I have a maximum in HCP's but 4♠ won't close the bidding in most hands slam is on.

Or so I hope.

I had not fully understood the last train option here, so I'll change to that, 4♥. It's better than not showing interest at all, I suppose.

[y66]

4H, just trying to describe my hand more completely without going past game.

[akhare]

4♥, only if I know it won't get partner too excited. The wasted Q♦ soft ♣ values and 8 trumps seem to argue against pressing on.

[billw55]

I admit to a poor understanding of last train. Presumably partner has already shown slam interest opposite an appropriate hand (by splintering). So, what do I gain by showing nebulous interest back at him? With what hands will he now sign off?

[the_clown]

billw55, on 2013-October-28, 10:17, said:

I admit to a poor understanding of last train. Presumably partner has already shown slam interest opposite an appropriate hand (by splintering). So, what do I gain by showing nebulous interest back at him? With what hands will he now sign off?

Its nice to be able to differentiate between I have a total garbage, please leave me alone and I have a reasonable hand, but not enough to bid slam on my own.

[ArtK78]

akhare, on 2013-October-28, 09:52, said:

4♥, only if I know it won't get partner too excited. The wasted Q♦ soft ♣ values and 8 trumps seem to argue against pressing on.

Partner already knows that you have exactly 4 trump (with very few exceptions), so he is making his slam try in a known 8 (or 9) card fit (on rare occasions partner could have 5 spades). So having an 8 card fit should not be a reason to denigrate slam possibilities.

[Fluffy]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-28, 12:43, said:

Partner already knows that you have exactly 4 trump (with very few exceptions), so he is making his slam try in a known 8 (or 9) card fit (on rare occasions partner could have 5 spades). So having an 8 card fit should not be a reason to denigrate slam possibilities.

But it should be a reason ro denigrate heart shortness

[jogs]

CSGibson, on 2013-October-27, 23:12, said:

Matchpoints, goodish field, not great opponents. You are playing precision, so I'm going to give you context for this auction:




1♦ is our catchall opener. It is 10-15 HCP, could be 0 diamonds if 4=4=0=5 shape. If I have 6 or more diamonds, then I will have 13-15 HCP.

4♦ is a splinter for spades.

---

4♥ would be last train, 4N 1430. Partner's splinter is not really limited - its any hand which thinks slam is possible if diamond wastage isn't an issue, but which wants to kick it to me.

So clearly if you want to bid this scientifically you could bid 5♦...but do you want to bid this scientifically at matchpoints?

1♦ - 1♥, 1♠

Does that promise diamonds? Or can it still be 4=4=0=5?

[ArtK78]

Fluffy, on 2013-October-28, 13:19, said:

But it should be a reason ro denigrate heart shortness

I don't know about that. Suppose partner has something like this:

KJTx
Axxx
x
AKxx

Which is certainly consistent with the bidding. Ruffing 3 hearts in hand gives you a chance for 13 tricks. I suspect you might drop a trick due to handling, but making 12 tricks should not be difficult. You might even have the luxury of taking the diamond finesse for 13 tricks.

And, since partner is unlimited, you might even throw in the ♥K while you are at it. Of course, with that good of a hand partner is going to keep bidding. But if you encourage him a little now, you might reach the grand.

[Fluffy]

spades 4-1 will already give you trouble in 6♠ on a bad lead. Subsitute ♥K for ♣K and you are in heavy trouble.

My point still is: reaching sound slams with 4-4 fit without a good side source is complicated. You cherry picked a wonderful hand with a side source in clubs, and the hand is fair form sound. Odds on for sure, but not ice cold.

[ArtK78]

Fluffy, on 2013-October-28, 15:32, said:

spades 4-1 will already give you trouble in 6♠ on a bad lead. Subsitute ♥K for ♣K and you are in heavy trouble.

My point still is: reaching sound slams with 4-4 fit without a good side source is complicated. You cherry picked a wonderful hand with a side source in clubs, and the hand is fair form sound. Odds on for sure, but not ice cold.

I didn't say I was leaping to slam. All I was doing was cooperating with 4♥. The rest is up to partner. He knows what he has.

[rogerclee]

This is the most normal keycard bid of all time.