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"canape natural" is there one?

#1 User is offline   sakuragi 

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Posted 2013-October-27, 00:53

is there a ready system with
  • canape
  • all other elements same as sayc (strong 1NT, transfer, weak 2, etc)


if there is one, kindly share a link.
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#2 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2013-November-01, 11:27

Not quite what you're looking for, but for about 2 years I played a system with:

Canape 1-bids
Intermediate NT (Good 12-15)
Strong 2s (Artificial GF 2 (e.g. std), 2/2/2 shows 8+ playing tricks in the shown suit, forcing for one round with next suit negative

It was playable, and we had some strong results at local tournements, and a source of much mirth and amusement, but not what I'd play to win an NABC event.
In general it did a lot better at MP than IMPs - game bidding could be a bit iffy at times, but it did very well on partscore deals.
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2013-November-01, 11:42

View Postsakuragi, on 2013-October-27, 00:53, said:

is there a ready system with
  • canape
  • all other elements same as sayc (strong 1NT, transfer, weak 2, etc)


if there is one, kindly share a link.


Blue Club comes the closest

Strong Club
1NT = 16-18 balanced or (13-15 balanced with 3=3=2=5 / 3=3=3=4 shape)
1D = 4+ cards
2D = Strong Roman (17-24 with 4441 shape)

Its not that difficult to tweak things for a normal strong NT and a weak 2D

http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B0006CU29G
Alderaan delenda est
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#4 User is offline   yunling 

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Posted 2013-November-03, 04:30

Roman Club seems to meet your requirement better.
http://www.bridgewit...stems/Roman.pdf

But unlimited canape openings don't work very well since it is very hard to show intermediate hands.
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#5 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-November-03, 05:35

Canape is awkward if you play a wide-range opening scheme (13-19 or even 11-21) as in "natural" systems. This is because after
1-1
2
responder can't take a false preference to hearts. So playing 2 as 11-17 won't work well - responder can bid 3 with 10-12 and pass with 5-7 but with 8-9 he is in an awkward position.

It is even worse after
1-1
2
In natural longest-first systems, opener would not show his second suit with a minimum. But playing Canape you have to show you second suit. So 2 is nonforcing. 11-17 is already an uncomfortably wide range, and besides, if opener has to jump to 3 to show 18+, you have even less bidding space left than you have after a non-reverse jump.

So Canape systems are based on limited opening ranges, say 11-15, with an artificial 1 showing 16+
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#6 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-November-03, 05:57

Could I suggest reading this blog entry, which explains why the system you are asking for may not be a particularly good idea. In any case, I do remember a French system in which you opened differently (natural versus canape) depending on your hand strength and this is probably as close as anything to what you are seeking. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name but it was successful at World Championship level so someone here should be able to identify it. Most modern canape methods use a forcing club though, so you might also think about moving in that direction if canape is important to you.
(-: Zel :-)
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#7 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2013-November-03, 06:15

In the early 90's I played a system called rosso e nerro that had tendency canapé. Strong 1nt, 16-18. Canape if strong. The range was such that you could have a strong 2C opening. No chance for weak twos, and the gcc would need tweaked to allow it.
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