[mr1303]

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You may not agree with the 3D limit raise, but I'm going to force it on you regardless, because that's what my partner did at the table.

How do you proceed? 3H will be taken initially as a general game try (although if you try again later partner will take it as a cue). 3S is NF, 3NT would be Mathe, asking for a shortage. Other bids are undiscussed.

[PhilKing]

I would bid 4♦ and respect a sign-off. In situations where we have a shortage ask available (3NT here), the steps above that show shortage.

BTW, the shortage ask is a little high, since over 3NT you have only 3 steps available, and four hands to show. As a practical matter, pard "never" has short spades here (with a stiff spade just pot game or make a light splinter), so responses are:

4♣ = no shortage
4♦/♥ = minor shortages, whichever way round is most comfortable in your system

I would actually go further and suggest having no shortages going through the stronger bergen variant, since it is a lottery whether game is cold opposite a minimum.

[ggwhiz]

I kinda like 3nt asking for shortness where if pard has a stiff in either round suit we can cue bid our way to whatever but I'm not clear on how you would continue after they show a stiff heart.

In this case when pard shows no shortness it seems practical to stop in game anticipating diamond waste. I've found reverse Bergen to be useful for the extra step in constructive auctions and mild pre-emptive effect on a constructive raise opposite a dog. Woof!

[Zelandakh]

PhilKing, on 2013-October-19, 09:46, said:

BTW, the shortage ask is a little high, since over 3NT you have only 3 steps available, and four hands to show. As a practical matter, pard "never" has short spades here

My partner never has short spades when they raise an opening in the suit either. For that matter there are 4 steps over 3NT. It might be necessary to use such methods if the opening bid was 1♥, although in that case it would probably be simpler just to use 3♣ as the limit raise and 3♠ as the shortage ask.

[RSClyde]

I'll just bid 6♠.
Even here it's not terrible and this is one of the worst hands we could have caught. If they don't lead a club it turns into a good contract. If they do then I'll need to pick up trumps and have either 4-4 diamonds or the heart on: not great but like I said, this is the worst hand when they find the best lead.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Side issue:
For those who use 3C! as the limit raise and 3D! as the mixed raise, there is no room for a "general game try" when ♥ are trump--
1H - 3D!

[RSClyde]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-October-19, 17:57, said:

Side issue:
For those who use 3C! as the limit raise and 3D! as the mixed raise, there is no room for a "general game try" when ♥ are trump--
1H - 3D!

Well I mean you're robbing peter to pay paul. Yes by doing it this way you miss the general game try with the constructive raise but you have one for the limit raise, reverse them and the opposite is the case.

My partner and I play the 3♦ over 1♥ is a good limit raise and that 3♣ could be heavyish constructive, to handle this problem.
With spades we play that 3♦ could be lighter.

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-October-19, 17:57, said:

Side issue:
For those who use 3C! as the limit raise and 3D! as the mixed raise, there is no room for a "general game try" when ♥ are trump--
1H - 3D!

I play 1♥ - 3♣ and 1♠ - 3♦ (2-under) as limit raises, with 1♥ - 3♦ and 1♠ - 3♥ (1-under) as mixed raises. The answer is simply to make the limit raise a little wider and the mixed raise a little smaller. If you play these responses reversed then you keep the limit raise tight and extend the mixed raise range. It really is that simple.

[mike777]

4 loser hand, pard shows around an 8 loser hand=slam or aggressive slam try.
Can understand just blasting to 6s

[lexlogan]

I assume 3♦ was a limit raise. I control-bid 4♣; 3♥ doesn't work since partner is supposed to leap to 4♠ if he likes his hand. If you have an alternate scheme (say, 3NT = game) then 3♥ would be fine. Over 4♣ partner bids 4♦ which means wasted values and I sign off at 4♠.