[ahydra]

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Playing weak NT, 4cM.

ahydra

[Codo]

I would like to know at least some things about the system over 1♦ 2♣.
But I guess that 3 ♣ and 3 ♦ are non forcing, else, why did you ask?

In the way I play it, 2 ♥ and 2 ♠ shows 4+ cards, as partner did not deny these suits, so I need to find another bid. I try 3 ♦. Partners most likely shape is something around 3361, so I will be fine if he has no other bid beyond 3♦.

[mr1303]

I also bid 3D. If partner cannot move beyond this, we should have no game. Partner has denied a weak NT, and opposite some of the rubbish I open on these days, 5 of a minor looks a long way off.

[MrAce]

3♦

[gwnn]

I suppose with the really bad 2/1 hands (8-10 hcp, or are those not allowed at all?) you could pass 2D? Then 3D seems fine even if it's NF.

[MickyB]

If you decide to GF you do so with 2H. This doesn't promise four cards.

[ahydra]

We play a modern style so 2/1 promises enough to GF opposite a strong NT. 2D here is NF, as are the 2NT, 3C and 3D responder's rebids.

ahydra

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would love to make a forcing 3D call.
If cant, because I play Acol, I would go with 3NT, since in this case
2NT would also be NF, suit bids would show values.

If I read the system comments correct this means 3NT for me.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ggwhiz]

3♦

I think you have to pray for a 3nt bid from partners side. 2♥ might get the job done but a raise from partner would be ugly.

[DJNeill]

2H - third suit forcing (see WJ05). Does not promise 4 cards, forces to game. My fit is too good in diamonds to stop below 3N now. If partner raises to 3H, 3S now should be a stall. If partner bids 2S 4th suit we can try 3D. If partner rebid 2N, I'll try 3N. If partner rebids 3D, I'll try 3S as a stall, still unwilling to give up on 3NT yet.

[ahydra]

Thanks for replies all. I thought a non-forcing 3D was a bit wimpish with this hand so tried 2H and raised partner's 2NT to 3NT. He had something like KJxx Jx AKxxx xx and the defence simply cashed 4 hearts and the SA for a complete bottom (forgot to specify MPs in the OP, sorry!)

Of course, if RHO had been one of the weaker players in the club I might have got away with that (a spade, the unbid suit, might be led instead of a heart). But in general, after this start and assuming I want to GF, how can I find out about stoppers in both majors? Perhaps we should play 3C as forcing?

ahydra

[mr1303]

My suggestion is not to play Acol, for this very reason.

[ggwhiz]

mr1303, on 2013-October-19, 09:03, said:

My suggestion is not to play Acol, for this very reason.

No system works all the time and sometimes you just have to take your juice. Partners are a factor too. My pard is so glass 1/2 full I get away with the wimpy 3♦ call all the time.

[FrancesHinden]

This problem is a matter of judgement: is the hand worth forcing to game? Your answer to that may actually depend on system, but that's a sort of backwards decision.

Playing 2/1, what on earth are you supposed to bid if you don't want to drive game? I guess 2NT in response to 1D? That's such a horrible misdescription of the hand that I would respond 2C and raise 2D to 3D i.e. I would overbid to describe my hand.
Playing Acol, you have a nasty call over 2D if you want to drive game, because neither 2H nor 3NT are very helpful. So playing Acol I would raise 2D to 3D i.e. I would underbid in order to describe my hand.

Simply saying 'don't play Acol' doesn't solve the problem. In fact, playing Acol on this particular hand gets you to a nice 3D contract. If instead partner had Axxx Jxx AKxxx x then opener's bidding would be the same and playing 2/1 you should end in a good 3NT contract and a boring 3D+1 playing Acol.

[broze]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-October-20, 06:19, said:

Playing 2/1, what on earth are you supposed to bid if you don't want to drive game? I guess 2NT in response to 1D?

I have 3♣ available as an Invitational jump shift and for me it's a clear choice on this hand with the Majors wide open.. Without that I suspect 2 followed by 3♣ should be non-forcing and I would choose that (although I really hate that treatment).