The Problem with Religious Moderation From Sam Harris
#562
Posted 2013-October-31, 12:29
Vampyr, on 2013-October-31, 09:45, said:
Perhaps. But the supernatural agent need not, itself, be conscious; in which case I would not call it a god.
-gwnn
#563
Posted 2013-October-31, 13:56
Vampyr, on 2013-October-31, 09:45, said:
hmmm ... I think I disagree, except in the trivial sense that if 2+2=5 then everything is true (including the existence of god).
People who believe that the mind can exist independently of the brain, and therefore interpret out-of-body-experiences literally, and believe in reincarnation etc, are probably prone to believe in many weird things, spiritual and otherwise. But in principle I see nothing inconsistent in believing that the mind is made of some strange stuff that isn't bound to our 3-dimensional space, while at the same time not believing in god.
#564
Posted 2013-October-31, 16:04
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#566
Posted 2013-November-01, 12:01
billw55, on 2013-October-31, 12:29, said:
Completely off topic, the best book I have ever read on the effect of consciousness is, of all things, a science fiction novel: Blindsight, by Watts.
It posits the discovery in near-space of a structure that, on investigation, is the work of a space-traveling form of intelligent life that lacks consciousness. At the same time, humans have identified a sub variant of homo sapiens that underlies vampire myths, and have been able to 'civilize' such people, but one of their characteristics is that while they are very intelligent, they, too, lack consciousness.
It sounds weird, especially the vampire bit, but it isn't 'fantasy' fiction. It is in fact what is called 'hard science fiction' in that nothing in its imagined world is inconsistent with our current understanding of physics....no warp drive, no magic. And vampirism doesn't bestow eternal life nor does a stake in the heart constitute the only sure way of killing them
![:P](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
His main idea seems to be that consciousness comes at a real price: that intelligence that lacks self-awareness is likely to be far more efficient than our messy version, but that is very definitely, from our perspective, bad news.
I have seen Blindsight deservedly, imo, on lists of the best science fiction novels of all time, but I also know that it didn't sell well, perhaps because Watts is not a widely known writer, and partly because science fiction is very much a niche market. If by writing about the book, I can get him some sales, so much the better
![:D](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
#567
Posted 2013-November-01, 12:30
helene_t, on 2013-October-31, 13:56, said:
People who believe that the mind can exist independently of the brain, and therefore interpret out-of-body-experiences literally, and believe in reincarnation etc, are probably prone to believe in many weird things, spiritual and otherwise. But in principle I see nothing inconsistent in believing that the mind is made of some strange stuff that isn't bound to our 3-dimensional space, while at the same time not believing in god.
Yes, fine, but the majority of, eg Christians, believe that Jesus provides eternal life.
#568
Posted 2013-November-01, 19:30
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#569
Posted 2013-November-02, 15:24
- to collate relevant stimuli and memories
- to create an imaginary model of reality with you and your internal processes as part of that model
- treating yourself as a unique distinct self-aware active agent,
- so that you can estimate the effect of your actions on yourself and reality in a purposeful way,
- icing on the cake is being able to verbalise this so that other conscious beings understand.
Under such an interpretation, a computer-program can pass any Turing-Test for consciousness.
Incidentally, the soul is the God particle (Genesis 2:7)
![:)](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
#570
Posted 2013-November-03, 20:29
nige1, on 2013-November-02, 15:24, said:
- to collate relevant stimuli and memories
- to create an imaginary model of reality with you and your internal processes as part of that model
- treating yourself as a unique distinct self-aware active agent,
- so that you can estimate the effect of your actions on yourself and reality in a purposeful way,
- icing on the cake is being able to verbalise this so that other conscious beings understand.
Under such an interpretation, a computer-program can pass any Turing-Test for consciousness.
Incidentally, the soul is the God particle (Genesis 2:7)
![:)](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Not so simple. I doubt this is generally accepted as a definition and measure. As I understand it still no accepted definition and way to measure and compare.
#571
Posted 2013-November-06, 01:28
1. A kilogram of feathers, or
2. A kilogram of gold.
#572
Posted 2013-November-06, 04:38
#573
Posted 2013-November-06, 05:23
Rik
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#574
Posted 2013-November-06, 05:24
#575
Posted 2013-November-06, 05:30
edit: how could I forget about buoyancy! It is a complete game changer!
George Carlin
#576
Posted 2013-November-06, 05:59
helene_t, on 2013-November-06, 05:24, said:
When I, as a European, came to the USA one of the first things I had to do was take a short course on a technical scientific subject. At that time (and perhaps still), many american engineers and scientists didnot have any idea about how the SI system works. Neither did they have a feeling of the size of the units. Okay, a kg is somewhat more than 2 pounds and a liter a little over a quart, but this thing about the difference between mass, weight and force?!? Way too complicated.
After seeing several instructors struggle with their SI units, there was one instructor who had understood it all (or had he?). He could clarify what a Newton was: "If you want to get an idea what a Newton is: It is roughly the mass of an apple.".
Rik
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#577
Posted 2013-November-06, 08:46
#578
Posted 2013-November-06, 08:55
32519, on 2013-November-06, 08:46, said:
Guess 32519's posting ban has expired...
#579
Posted 2013-November-06, 09:16
#580
Posted 2013-November-06, 10:56
32519, on 2013-November-06, 08:46, said:
Rik
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg