[Zelandakh]

I thought this was a pretty obvious 4♣ and am surprised there is so much discussion about it.

[jdeegan]

MrAce, on 2013-October-09, 01:33, said:

I have seen interesting replies in this topic, such as jumping to 5 ♣ in a GF auction for us, when opponents has already wasted our space. Telling that 4♣ would be slam force and maybe grandslam. Where do these people come up with this funny (to me) ***** idk. Something sad to hear in expert forum.

What stroke me most in this topic was, pd showing 5+ clubs and 8-10 hcp, we have a 4 card fit and stiff in opponent suit which was also raised by other opponent, and we decide to hide the fit ! And then we double and expect pd to bid 3NT, as if this 3NT means % 100 guaranteed stopper, but we pass it anyway if pd bids 3NT , hiding the 4 card fit again, and try to aim for the hands where 5 ♣ fails and 3NT makes.

I do not usually agree witth Rainer but he said something that i think is very important about 3♣ bid by pd. If pd has 3235 type of hand, he will usually will not have spade stopper imo. I expect him to hold 6 card clubs, or 5 card without spade stopper. But it even when he has only 5 clubs + spade stopper, the hands that will fail in 5 minor and only make 3NT are very limited, basically losing 3 fast tricks in majors.

This is way too expert for me.

As usual, your analysis seems correct to me. Fishing for 3NT is seriously problematical at IMPs. 4♣ is evidently the technically correct bid, but sometimes my partners screw up. 5♣ eliminates the prospect of future human error.

[aguahombre]

jdeegan, on 2013-October-09, 11:21, said:

5♣ eliminates the prospect of future human error.

A brutal statement about partner's competence, IMO. I am willing to consistently bid what I consider the correct bid (here 4♣) and endure the infrequent human error by CHO, in the interest of harmony. If 4♣ is not the correct partnership bid for us, I will listen to what she thinks is the correct call. But, I will not blast her out of the picture.

[SteveMoe]

Do you know LHO's tendencies? Absent experience I would bid 5♣.
As other have noted partner cannot have 2As and 1K. I'd add LHO might be less likely to hold the ♥K than RHO.
Would want a 2nd♠ for a double here (Cooperative Penalty).

[johnu]

jdeegan, on 2013-October-09, 11:21, said:

4♣ is evidently the technically correct bid, but sometimes my partners screw up. 5♣ eliminates the prospect of future human error.

Do you blame your partners when you screw up? I can just image the conversation.

partner - Isn't 6♣ cold? If you bid 4♣, I could have cue bid 4♥ and maybe we could get there.
jdeegan - 4♣ is the right bid, but you would have screwed up the auction because you're a lousy bidder.
partner - OK, thanks for your insight. Same time next week?

[Fluffy]

FWIW my thoughts were that bdding 4♠ I would make partner downgrade ♠A and any honor, so he would gladly bid slam if he held ♥A ♣A, however this might also make partner bid 6 with ♥K, but not sure.

[jdeegan]

johnu, on 2013-October-09, 23:02, said:

Do you blame your partners when you screw up? I can just image the conversation.

partner - Isn't 6♣ cold? If you bid 4♣, I could have cue bid 4♥ and maybe we could get there.
jdeegan - 4♣ is the right bid, but you would have screwed up the auction because you're a lousy bidder.
partner - OK, thanks for your insight. Same time next week?

I am used to playing with players who are better than I am. You learn not to put them under pressure based on analyzing some kind of low probability chance. Partners get tired, so making the game harder for them is not conducive to overall good results. Blasting also can make things tougher on the opponents both in the bidding and on defense.