[mgoetze]

fromageGB, on 2013-October-09, 03:47, said:

It covers the minors well. It is very poor with less than game major hands, as is inevitable when there is only one bid to show a major and no bids for both majors. If the opponents enter the bidding, the other major is lost.

It's not in the writeup but I do play negative doubles.

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Even with no opponents, an invitational responder with just one major cannot distinguish whether he has 5 or 6.

Hm let's see...

1♣-1♦; 1♥-1♠; 1NT-2♥; ...
1♣-1♥; 1♠-2♣; 2♦-2♠; ...

I don't really see the problem. Responder is known to be invational with 5+ hearts (spades). Opener is know to have 2 or 3. If he has 3 he will accept by bidding in hearts (spades). If he has only two he would accept by bidding something else like 3NT and responder corrects to 4♥ (4♠). We land in the major if we have an 8+ card fit and in NT (or clubs or whatever) if we don't.

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If he is invitational with both he cannot show the length of the second, and will possibly end up in the wrong one, or at the 3 level.

I'm not too worried about 65 or 56. 44/45/46 may be a bit ambiguous but not in the length of the second one. So I guess we are talking about 54 vs. 55.

1♣-1♥; 1♠-2♣; 2♦-2♥; ...

If opener has 4 hearts there is no problem, so let's say he has 3. If he also has 3 spades then we'll just play in spades, no problem. Otherwise he has exactly 2344 and will bid 3NT. Responder can then decide whether to play there or correct to 4♥.

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If he is weak with both majors and no opponents he appears not to be able to distinguish between 44 and 45, or 54 and 55.

This is true I suppose but not really a big deal IMHO. Note that a 5-3 heart fit can sometimes be found via

1♣-1♦; 1♥-1NT; 2♣-2♥

I can certainly understand wanting to show certain major holdings right away but I don't think that not doing so "inevitably" leads to a flawed system.

[fromageGB]

No, I am not saying it is flawed! It's one of those things where you are familiar with doing it one way and don't intuitively see the detail of other ways. There are different treatments for different emphases, and I am aware I am in a minority on this. Not trying to convert anyone.

>It's not in the writeup but I do play negative doubles.
But what I meant was a bid in 4th seat, say
1♣ (pass) 1♦/♥ (2♦)
pass (I play support double rather than negative double ) (pass) ???
Now responder with both majors and a weak hand cannot show the other. If second seat raises to 3♦ then again you can't show the other unless game forcing, I guess. It seems so much easier when it starts
1♣ (pass) 2♣= both majors invitational+ , etc.

But it's impossible to describe your entire hand in one bid, and have a different bid to cater for all hands, so whatever method you choose, you will win some and lose some.