[ArtK78]

I was faced with this problem on a hand from the ACBL Instant Matchpoint Pairs earlier tonight.

Nonvul vs. Vul, second seat, you hold:

Qxx
T9x
T7xxx
Ax

The bidding:


(P) - P - (1♠) - x
(P) - 2♦ - (P) - 3♣
(P) - ?



You are playing a light opening system, so your pass in second seat shows less than 10 HCP.

Your call?

[mike777]

my options are pass or 3nt

as a nonexpert I will try pass.

[nigel_k]

Definitely 3NT. Double then bid should be a pretty good hand, especially when that bid is three of a minor. A weaker style is possible but it makes the game very difficult if I am supposed to pass when I have this much.

[mike777]

nigel_k, on 2013-October-03, 00:22, said:

Definitely 3NT. Double then bid should be a pretty good hand, especially when that bid is three of a minor. A weaker style is possible but it makes the game very difficult if I am supposed to pass when I have this much.

you claim you have this much....what does pard assume you have?


based on your logic much less

/for me pard should assume I have this..

[rogerclee]

3N looks perfect and obvious.

[Trinidad]

3NT

Some reasons in random order..

• I am at the top of my 0-8 HCP range opposite a game invitation => bid game.
  
• I have a spade stop.
  
• Partner is supposed to have a really nice hand with something like 18-21 HCPs.
  
• I have Ax in partner's suit, solidifying partner's club suit and giving me an entry.
  
• RHO does not have an entry to attack the spade suit through me. I have time to develop tricks, unless LHO will start by giving me a spade trick.

How can one not bid 3NT?

Rik

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2013-October-03, 00:55, said:

you claim you have this much....what does pard assume you have?


based on your logic much less

/for me pard should assume I have this..

Partner knows I might have xxx, xxx, xxxx, xxx and probably assumes I have a 3 or 4 count. For us a 2♣ overcall can be a fine hand, so bidding like this shows a really big one and 3N is a complete no brainer. Also lead round to my Q♠ is probably a good thing.

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-October-03, 02:34, said:

Partner knows I might have xxx, xxx, xxxx, xxx and probably assumes I have a 3 or 4 count. For us a 2♣ overcall can be a fine hand, so bidding like this shows a really big one and 3N is a complete no brainer. Also lead round to my Q♠ is probably a good thing.

ok why does pard assume 3-4 ?

fwiw I thought pard assumes a bit more on this auction.

I wouid
'But I guess that is the entire issue on this deal.

[Fluffy]

3♠ or 3NT, I would go with 3NT since I expect Qxx to be a stopper reasonably enough.

[rhm]

mike777, on 2013-October-03, 03:00, said:

ok why does pard assume 3-4 ?

fwiw I thought pard assumes a bit more on this auction.

I wouid
'But I guess that is the entire issue on this deal.

No it is not, and I think that is the wrong question to ask.
Partner assumes nothing, but knows that you are unlikely to hold a yarborough even when he has a good hand.
Better to ask what partner shows.
Partner shows a strong hand with long clubs starting from about 19+ (including distribution).
Partner was not looking for notrump, because he needs something in spades and clubs. He is missing the ♣A!
If all your points were in the red suits you might pass.
It looks as if playing 3NT from this side has on average as much chances to make than 3♣ from partner's side.
Clubs will very likely play for no loser.
Given the bidding (no spade raise) even if partner can not contribute anything in spades, chances are good that opening leader will hold both top spades.
In fact when spade were not raised, chances are that 3♣ might suffer from spade ruffs. The ♠Q is likely to be worthless in 3♣ and if it is not, than your combined spade holding must be very comfortable for 3NT.

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

rhm, on 2013-October-03, 03:34, said:

No it is not, and I think that is the wrong question to ask.
Partner assumes nothing, but knows that you are unlikely to hold a yarborough even when he has a good hand.
Better to ask what partner shows.
Partner shows a strong hand with long clubs starting from about 19+ (including distribution).
Partner was not looking for notrump, because he needs something in spades and clubs. He is missing the ♣A!
If all your points were in the red suits you might pass.
It looks as if playing 3NT from this side has on average as much chances to make than 3♣ from partner's side.
Clubs will very likely play for no loser.
Given the bidding (no spade raise) even if partner can not contribute anything in spades, chances are good that opening leader will hold both top spades.
In fact when spade were not raised, chances are that 3♣ might suffer from spade ruffs. The ♠Q is likely to be worthless in 3♣ and if it is not, than your combined spade holding must be very comfortable for 3NT.

Rainer Herrmann

Good response, and we'd still be overcalling 2♣ with 19 including distribution, I'm expecting 20 HCP and 6 clubs unless there's a lot of shape but this is an extreme view.

And with me expecting partner to hold 20, opener to hold say 12-13, 3-4 is half the rest which is what I assume for my hand. If the top limit of your overcall is lower, adjust up for partner.

[uday]

A spade stopper and the Ace to flesh out pard's clubs make 3N seem straightforward

[billw55]

If the ♠Q is worth anything, it is at NT.

[Cyberyeti]

billw55, on 2013-October-03, 06:36, said:

If the ♠Q is worth anything, it is at NT PLAYED FROM MY SIDE.

FYP

[ArtK78]

OK. Apparently this is a lot more obvious than I thought. I passed 3♣, and it was very wrong.

I think that 3♠ is probably the right bid in case partner's big hand is short in spades. There is no guarantee that LHO has the AK of spades, and there is no guarantee that RHO has no entry. It may be right to bid 3NT on the assumption that Qxx is enough to stop the suit, but that is not clear. As it turns out, partner has Kx of spades, and 3NT is trivial. The only question is whether to try for an overtrick.

[uday]

3S will torture partner, who will wonder if all you need is a spade stop ( perhaps your spades are xxx )

[Winstonm]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-03, 08:15, said:

OK. Apparently this is a lot more obvious than I thought. I passed 3♣, and it was very wrong.

I think that 3♠ is probably the right bid in case partner's big hand is short in spades. There is no guarantee that LHO has the AK of spades, and there is no guarantee that RHO has no entry. It may be right to bid 3NT on the assumption that Qxx is enough to stop the suit, but that is not clear. As it turns out, partner has Kx of spades, and 3NT is trivial. The only question is whether to try for an overtrick.

I think 3S is the best bid to get the hand right-sided - partner needs to bid 3N on Kx of spades.

edit: this was my response before I read your post.

[rogerclee]

3S is a horrible bid for all the reasons given above, mostly by rhm.

[Winstonm]

rogerclee, on 2013-October-03, 13:01, said:

3S is a horrible bid for all the reasons given above, mostly by rhm.

Kx, QJ10, AQ, KQJxxx

[PhilKing]

Winstonm, on 2013-October-03, 13:28, said:

Kx, QJ10, AQ, KQJxxx

3NT is fine from either side, particularly with two heart tens.

Change it to xx, AQx, AQ, KQJxxx and 3♠ gets us to a magnificent 4♣ potentially down one with 3NT making.

3♠ = 4 even on the Nige scale.