[mgoetze]

---

2m is forcing.

[aguahombre]

Ugly. I don't believe I can pass unless Pard is one of those who would Double instead of overcall with as much as 15. My Pard tops out at 17, so I think I must do something. 2D might be O.K. in your forcing style if Pard can take a joke about the suit quality. Think I will try the lower-level 1NT.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Quacks aplenty ... I'll try 1NT too .

[PhilKing]

Wrong forum.

[mgoetze]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 12:17, said:

Wrong forum.

Did you remember to report it to the moderators? If not, that would be more effective.

[neilkaz]

1NT WTP?

[Winstonm]

If we are missing something, pard misbid his hand: PASS

[barmar]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 12:17, said:

Wrong forum.

Borderline, I'm leaving it where it is.

[mgoetze]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 12:17, said:

Wrong forum.

The question would be, what forum is better? I note the N/B forum is described as "This forum is for people new to bridge to ask questions in a friendly, zero-tolerance setting." Now I would note that I am not new to bridge, my partner who bid 2♦ is not new to bridge (he has been playing for over 10 years) and I am not interested in a friendly setting but prefer answers such as "1NT WTP". (As for zero-tolerance, well, the hog is still allowed to post in the N/B forum, enough said.) So... "Natural Bidding Discussion"?

I disagreed with 2♦, incidentally. I, like the majority here, would have bid 1NT, but also had some sympathy for pass. So I thought I would check how clear this is to others.

[mcphee]

Passing is most unwise imho. Not worth 2D but 1NT stands out a mile for me. If partner should happen to rebid a minor I will be trying for game.

[MrAce]

Winstonm, on 2013-August-31, 20:09, said:

If we are missing something, pard misbid his hand: PASS

Let me guess, you are one of those who always start with DBL when holding anything that is 13 hcp and above, right ?

[Lord Molyb]

MrAce, on 2013-September-02, 03:09, said:

Let me guess, you are one of those who always start with DBL when holding anything that is 13 hcp and above, right ?

the horror
(I bid 1NT)

[Winstonm]

MrAce, on 2013-September-02, 03:09, said:

Let me guess, you are one of those who always start with DBL when holding anything that is 13 hcp and above, right ?

Nope. I am one of those that understand that Queens and Jacks are overvalued, even more so when no fit is found. Obviously, if the partnership style of bidding is to overcall on quite powerful hands (ones on which many would double and then bid) then it becomes necessary to keep the auction alive and bid something like 1NT (which is a silly bid IMO but necessary, which is why I do not like this style of bidding).

[eagles123]

PhilKing, on 2013-August-31, 12:17, said:

Wrong forum.

Sorry but I find this post quite annoying, if you are suggesting the post should be in Expert or another section I apologise, but I'm sorry this is clearly not a N/B issue, most beginner players won't even be doing much competitive bidding unless it's very simple. If people wonder why I post topics that are at least intermediate in N/B forum, then here we go.

Eagles

[aguahombre]

Winstonm, on 2013-September-02, 10:54, said:

I am one of those that understand that Queens and Jacks are overvalued, even more so when no fit is found.

I have found quacks to be of value in notrump...i.e., when no fit is found. So, I guess I, too, am one of those who don't understand.

Of course, I also don't see a preemptive heart raise from RHO and in my ignorance expect Partner to perhaps have enough help to block up that suit...or maybe RHO forgot to raise hearts, and Opener won't lead them. All that aside, it is only 1NT and if Opener has strong reopening double, his double of 1NT will be more confusing...might even get us +180 or 280.

[RSClyde]

Winstonm, on 2013-September-02, 10:54, said:

Nope. I am one of those that understand that Queens and Jacks are overvalued, even more so when no fit is found. Obviously, if the partnership style of bidding is to overcall on quite powerful hands (ones on which many would double and then bid) then it becomes necessary to keep the auction alive and bid something like 1NT (which is a silly bid IMO but necessary, which is why I do not like this style of bidding).

Can't I over call 1♠ on AKxxxx, xxx, x, AKx in which game in spades is a good bet?

[ggwhiz]

Showing a pulse can be important and the only way to do it is 1nt without forcing the issue.

Pass followed by 2♥ back to me turns my stomach.

[Winstonm]

aguahombre, on 2013-September-02, 13:21, said:

I have found quacks to be of value in notrump...i.e., when no fit is found. So, I guess I, too, am one of those who don't understand.

Of course, I also don't see a preemptive heart raise from RHO and in my ignorance expect Partner to perhaps have enough help to block up that suit...or maybe RHO forgot to raise hearts, and Opener won't lead them. All that aside, it is only 1NT and if Opener has strong reopening double, his double of 1NT will be more confusing...might even get us +180 or 280.

I believe in this auction 1Nt should be a constructive bid and not one made simply to keep the auction alive in case overcaller has a big hand.

My methods would call for 1N to be 9-11-ish and slightly encouraging: something like xx, KJx, KQxx, 10xxx rather than the posted hand.

As for value of cards, it is obvious that fit increases the value of secondary cards while no fit decreases their value. Qxx opposite xxx is not much value. Opposite KJx it is a key card. When partner announces long spades, my Jx goes up in value, but the auction makes my heart J go down in value. A pair of empty queens is of dubious value, and the whole hand has bad enteriors. Personally, I would evaluate this hand as worth about 8.5 on a high-card basis. If I am right, then unless parner holds a good 17, we are not missing anything when I pass - other than missing out on getting too high or making an unsuccessful double when partner thinks I have a better hand.

With a good 17, in old school, we would double and then bid spades.

[PhilKing]

eagles123, on 2013-September-02, 11:07, said:

Sorry but I find this post quite annoying, if you are suggesting the post should be in Expert or another section I apologise, but I'm sorry this is clearly not a N/B issue, most beginner players won't even be doing much competitive bidding unless it's very simple. If people wonder why I post topics that are at least intermediate in N/B forum, then here we go.

Eagles

It's not my style usually - it's just that Mgoetze is head of the "wrong forum quango", so I thought I would try and get one of his ones moved on the grounds that this is a complete non-problem! However, the fuzz disagreed, so I won't try again ...

Anyway, I wanted it moved to the "is partner an ox?", forum, but there isn't one.

[aguahombre]

Oof. The few who disagree with our 1NT advance are reaching for their lisinopril.