[Flame]

Didnt know what title to give this.
My question is how to process all the information, to make myself clear ill ask a simpler question first and answer it.
The question -
Having AKQxx vs xxx
What do you do.
On my eary days of bridge i would play the A, the count 4 out 6 i got 3 left.
The lead the K, 8 out 4 i got 1 left...
Today i dont do it this way, from the begging i know the suit will be 3-2 or 4-1 or 5-0 , i play the A then the K and if non showed up i know it was 3-2 and know one is left out. Now to the more serious question

---

I was playing 7S with these hands, left lead a club, now im starting to play my trumps, and they discard and i need to follow all the details, so at the right momoent ill know how many card left of each suit, to know wather im going for a squeeze or a finnese or the clubs are just good.
How do you orgenize those things when you play, do you just play all the cards and at trick 11 stop and start counting all that happend, or you maybe before u play the forst spade you know how many clubs are out and begin to count how many are left when they discard.
Sorry that this isnt so clear and maybe unanswerable, but in my opinion this is more importent then know your card combinations or your trump cups and special squeezes, and i hope to get some ideas.

[whereagles]

This hand has many squeeze possibilities. I don't think I could think of them all at table, so I'd simply follow my instincts, which would be..

1) Ruff a heart to (possibly) transfer the heart guard
2) Cash a few trumps, see what happens, watch opps react
3) If I draw no special inference from the cards played, I cash last top club and play for a double squeeze (H/D on east, C/D on west).

Note: this is probably not the best line, but is what I would do at table, given I have limited time to play the hand. It does accumulate the diamond finesse with some extra chances, so it's better than 50%.

[Flame]

You really didnt understand me, im not asking whats the best line, just what are the process that you use to follow the discards inroder to know how many cards left of each suit, and maybe some extra informations.
Funny now that iv said it this way, why didnt i said it before, instead of giving that stupid example.

[joker_gib]

whereagles, on Jan 19 2005, 07:26 AM, said:

3) If I draw no special inference from the cards played, I cash last top club and play for a double squeeze (H/D on east, C/D on west).

I suppose you want to say : H/D on west, C/D on east because the contrary doesn't work !

[whereagles]

hum.. yeah, that's it. I've always confused east with west.. lol.

As for the reasoning process, well.. what I said is what I would do. Except that indeed I didn't explain how the fall of the cards could change my mind

[Free]

This is an extra reason to ruff a ♥ Flame, you'll get easier count on the ♥s, since you'll know how many there are left. I suppose there will only be 2 left after you ruff one, so you don't have to put much energy in the ♥ suit anymore. You can concentrate completely on 1 suit, following if opps don't discard their ♥s ofcourse, and from this 1 suit with the missing ♥s, you can know how many in the 3rd suit are left.

Another way is to just count the high cards. In your example, you'll only have to watch ♥KQ, ♦K, and ♣QJT.

[mila85]

Take a club and cash all but one spades.
Then heart to ace and ruff heart.
Opponents' discards will help you.

[pclayton]

Be happy the great dealer gave you the ♣9. A♥, ruff heart and trumps. Watch for the ♣QJT. You'll have to guess to play for which squeeze later.

Be happy your clubs aren't AK5. Now you actually have to count the hand.

[bestguru]

As a player who regularly misses out on games while waiting the 14th club to be discarded I can't offer much insight on this one. I am quite interested in others reponses. Perhaps and easier question to answer would be, "How did you train yourself to count?"

[badderzboy]

I only recently "learnt" how to count and I did it with advice I found elsewhere in the forum. First learning the hand patterns by rote (I think it's in BIL forum somewhere) - makes it easier to recognise them ...

and then by looking only for outstanding significant cards in a % of hands

then by painstakingly counting one suit a % of hands in a session then after the brainache & haze have eased tried two suits and then three and by definition 4!

There's also the fun of counting opps hands v's the bidding to occasionally finding that extra clue - I blame Kelsey et al for that lol

It does become a lot easier and more automatic the more you practice and after a while your brain does stop hurting!

Now I just need to work out how to use it more effectively!

Steve

[han]

I think the reply by wereagles did answer your question:

Before you start playing your cards and count theirs, you make a plan. Here, wereagles showed what his plan would be. Then, the conclusion was that you don't need to figure out the complete distribution of all the hands, but you only need to keep track of the high cards.

If you can isolate choices you might have later in a hand (e.g. with AQ10x vs Kxx, play for the drop or finesse) then you know what to focus on when counting.

[Flame]

Thanks for all the answers, I have more expirence in bridge then most of the posters here and i can tell you this kind of things win for you. This kind of hand has lots of psicology in it, you as a declarer have a super simple plan, you can execute the almost all your cards in your sleep, the opponents have much harder job to do. A smart declarer will play it fast, a smart defenders will slow him down. It also wont be very good for your reputation to play all the hand fast and then after trick 11 start thinking. So the best is to play it fast and look at the right cards.

[fred]

Jlall, on Jan 19 2005, 05:19 PM, said:

This is funny, because I can't figure out how to answer it. I'm not really sure how I count. I just do lol. Really weird, I've never thought about it.

My experience is similar. I don't really have to think about counting the hand - it is almost like a program running in the background of my mind handles this for me.

Another strange thing is that I did not always have this ability and it is not something that I gradually developed. I remember very clearly after I had been playing (day and night as it turns out) for about 2 years, all of a sudden I could just count hands without have to be consiously aware of my mental processes.

I think psychologists call this a Geshtalt experience.

Probably I have more natural talent than most bridge players, but I figured out the importance of counting very early in my bridge career and forced myself to count every hand when I played. Perhaps this process got my brain started on writing a program for counting hands. The fact that I learned to play bridge when I was young might have been helpful too. People who start the game later in life (even VERY smart people) rarely become top players.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[FrancesHinden]

Play barbu (see e.g. www.barbu.co.uk).

It's a superb way to improve your counting & memory skills, as compared to bridge

- each individual pip is very important (no-one would use "x" for non-honours to give a barbu problem)

- there's no dummy, so you have to count 3 other hands not 2

- you have no partner to give you helpful signals

- without much of an auction and with each player acting for themselves it's much harder to work out the inferences about who has what in each suit.

[Winstonm]

Don't worry about the mechanics of squeezes at this point in your career - you can and should learn that later on. For now, the best thing to do is to make your best plan - and do it before a single card is played from dummy. More hands are blown at trick one than at any other time.

For now, think about how you can combine your chances. There are two simple chances: take the diamond finesse or play the ace of hearts and ruff a heart, which will develope the jack into a trick ff one opponent holds the KQ doubleton. Better yet is to combine those chances...try the hearts first....if that doesn't work you can always try the diamond finesse later. This is a big reason why experts make more contracts: they utilize all there chances and plan the timing very carefully.

And it is probalby best to delay the diamond finesse until you have run off all but one trump....a squeeze that you can see may just fall into your lap although you really don't know the mechanics.

WinstonM

[mila85]

When I was novice I counted: 5+3=8, we have 8 cards, 13-8=5, they have 5 cards, possible distributions are 3-2, 4-1 or 5-0.
When I was beginer I counted: we have 8 cards, they have 5 cards, possible distributions are 3-2, 4-1 or 5-0.
Now I count: We have 8 cards, possible distributions are 3-2 or 4-1.

See how many cards we have and know possible distributions.
I can't do this when I see 6 or less cards. But I rarely count these suits. When I need count that suit at the end: first trick all players folowed=4 + second and third trick west discarded=6 (10) + one card is in dummy (11) + I have one (12) -> east has one.


When partner put cards to the table I count tricks. I count them once more. I think that when I was counting I already recognized squeeze position. After few seconds you know that playing some trumphs doesn't cost anything. So do not give time to opps and start to play trumphs. When they are thinking about discards you can think about sqeeze...

btw When I was novice and played 3nt I counted:
In 1nt I must make seven trick, 3nt-1nt = 2tricks, 7+2=9 tricks, 13-9=....thinking.... they can take 4 tricks. )

[pclayton]

I want to ask a question - and I'd appreciate an honest answer from everyone.

Do you count every single hand?

And when I mean 'count', I don't mean the squeeze example given at the beginning of this thread, where the success of your contract is dependent on the knowledge of what cards the opponents are holding in the endgame. What I mean are the semi-mundane hands.

[inquiry]

Ok... if I have to be honest, my answer would be no. I use to, but I have developed lazy habits. When I play in f2f tourneys, I do, however, count everyhand. On line, I am answering questions from users (I am a yellow), surfing, talking to the wife, eating, talking on the phone, and occassionally watching TV...

For me, counting is still requires energy, not much, but some. I don't use numbers, but patterns, but I have to remember the patterns and what I discovered earlier.. counting them first is easy, remember them as new info means I can't be distracted...

Ben