[mr1303]

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You open a slightly heavy weak 2D in 3rd seat. Partner jumps to 3S, undiscussed in your methods.

What do you call?

[c_corgi]

I can't imagine discussing this, but neither can I imagine it not being a fit jump opposite anyone I would be likely to partner. Beyond that I can't possibly decide what it might mean or what to do without knowing who this partner is, or indeed the form of scoring.

[billw55]

My first thought is splinter, but then the ops passes are hard to believe. Although possible I guess.

Second thought is some kind of fit jump.

Third thought is to apply the ASBAF principle - "all strange bids are forcing"

I bid 4♦ now.

[nige1]

mr1303, on 2013-July-02, 08:36, said:

You open a slightly heavy weak 2D in 3rd seat. Partner jumps to 3S, undiscussed in your methods. What do you call?

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IMO 4♠ = 10, 4♣ = 9, Pass = 7. Possible explanations for partner's 3♠ are:

• Fit-jump e.g. ♠ K Q T 9 x ♥ K x ♦ Q x x x x ♣ x or ♠ Q x x x x x ♥ A x ♦ Q x x x ♣ J
• Mistake e.g. ♠ A K T 9 x x x x ♥ x x x x ♦ K x ♣ - (Partner's ♣s transmogrified into ♠s)
• Splinter e.g. ♠ - ♥ A x x ♦ K x x x x ♣ Q x x x x (unlikely considering opponent's silence).

[Zelandakh]

billw55, on 2013-July-02, 08:57, said:

Third thought is to apply the ASBAF principle - "all strange bids are forcing"

I do not think this principle applies to passed hands, especially after a preempt.

[ArtK78]

I will give you an explanation based on what one of my teammates did in a District Grand National Teams semifinal match that cost more than the margin of victory.

Partner just discovered that both of his black suits are spades. So, instead of being 4-3-3-3 he is 7-3-3-0.

[aguahombre]

Fit jump or pulled the wrong card (this time, or the previous time). Willing to play in S or D. I won't show the Club control, and choose 4D. With a third Spade, I could pass if 2D was really yucky. With only 2S, I don't believe Pass is an alternative.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-02, 09:44, said:

I will give you an explanation based on what one of my teammates did in a District Grand National Teams semifinal match that cost more than the margin of victory.

Partner just discovered that both of his black suits are spades. So, instead of being 4-3-3-3 he is 7-3-3-0.

That would also be interesting (to me, anyway) for this Laws forum. For a passed hand and silent opponents, 4♠ should not exist as anything artificial (Why leak information?) and would unmistakeably show something had gone wrong on the first round. And, if your anecdote fits OP's scenario, 3S followed by 4S would legally do the same thing; still believe opener cannot pass 3S without a minimum 2D and 3-card support.

[ggwhiz]

I have no idea what partner is up to, especially in light of the opps passing.

I'm bidding 4♣, folding my cards and putting them in my pocket, a transfer of responsibility as I have nothing else to say about this hand. Unless pard has gone nutzo with both majors and I correct hearts to spades.

[aguahombre]

The trouble with 4C is that it is pointless unless partner is an unpassed hand. And, if partner is unpassed, it probably should be a control bid with 3-card spade support. Opposite a fit jump, which I think 3S should be from a passed hand 4c simply tells the opponents you have a club control but accomplishes nothing for your side except confusion.

[chasetb]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-02, 09:44, said:

I will give you an explanation based on what one of my teammates did in a District Grand National Teams semifinal match that cost more than the margin of victory.

Partner just discovered that both of his black suits are spades. So, instead of being 4-3-3-3 he is 7-3-3-0.

Another reason that's in the same ballpark is that partner had a hand that was an inbetweener. I would bet in this case, a 6+ card suit that couldn't open 1♠ / 2♠ / 3♠. The options are 6-4, 7-4, or 7 Spades and didn't like 3♠ or 1♠ and refused to bid 2♠ on some crazy principle. Why can't 3♠ be the limit of the hand?

I highly doubt that it can be a splinter, because how neither person can bid what would be a 10/11 card suit is nuts (unless OPPS has a hand highlighted in the first paragraph). A Fit-Showing Jump would be better, but since this auction is undiscussed, I doubt that as well. I think I would pass, after all ANBAFBAPH (Almost No Bids Are Forcing By A Passed Hand).

[aguahombre]

chasetb: I think those in-betweeners with just long spades could just bid 2S instead of 3S....natural and non-forcing by a passed hand.

[ggwhiz]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-02, 19:44, said:

4C accomplishes nothing for your side except confusion.

3♠ already accomplished that, I'm just doubling down on it. Fit showing, splinter, natural? are all outlawed under the Geneva convention on torture.

[aguahombre]

ggwhiz, on 2013-July-02, 21:34, said:

3♠ already accomplished that, I'm just doubling down on it. Fit showing, splinter, natural? are all outlawed under the Geneva convention on torture.

I sympathize with that. But this thread was posted in the Laws forum and is apparently looking for LA's from some irregularity. And, IMO, there are no alternatives to 4D which could not be demonstrably suggested by some UI.

For instance --- what I know about advances by a passed hand to an opening preempt (and the silence of the opponents) tells me that pard will not hold Void-AKXX-KXXX XXXXX; but if UI somehow suggests 3S was bid on that, 4C would be taking advantage of/allowing for that UI.

[Zelandakh]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-02, 22:56, said:

And, IMO, there are no alternatives to 4D which could not be demonstrably suggested by some UI.

For instance --- what I know about advances by a passed hand to an opening preempt (and the silence of the opponents) tells me that pard will not hold Void-AKXX-KXXX XXXXX; but if UI somehow suggests 3S was bid on that, 4C would be taking advantage of/allowing for that UI.

This example shows that 4♦ can also easily be demonstrably suggested by UI. If it is possible for 3♠ to be natural with long spades (perhaps a flawed preempt) and you have UI that it is actually a splinter, then pass is a LA and 4♦ is suggested.

[StevenG]

The trouble with these problems is that you have to know your partner. On Monday my partner picked up a huge 1606 hand, but opened 1♣ thinking it was 1336. Despite her realising what she'd done before reversing into hearts on her second bid, we still ended in 3N rather than the laydown slam.

I'd bid 4♠ on this one, assuming partner had done something similar. But that's based on my experiences in low-level club bridge. I've no idea what I'd make of it with a good partner.

[mr1303]

Those of you who twigged the laws and rulings theme here - well done.

Unfortunately, when you bid 2D partner alerted and explained that 2D showed a weak hand with 5-4 or better in both majors.

3S escaped for down 3 for -150. The director adjusted the score to 4S X -4 for -800.

Was just wondering what LAs were.

[c_corgi]

Well, assuming a fit jump would be the reasonable interpretation of the partnership meta-agreements and implicit understandings, then I guess the LAs are pass and 4D. I am not raising to game or making slam tries opposite a passed hand! Pass is probably suggested as being more likely to stop the wheels falling off any more catastrophically than they have already, so that leaves you with 4D. This sounds like an impossible call, so goodness knows where it leads to, but maybe 4S possibly doubled is fair enough.

[ggwhiz]

When I bid 4♣ I was just attempting to show my side card in a max having no idea what suit pard is going in.

Since passing had not occurred to me I have to agree with the Directors ruling. 3♠ just HAS to be some kind of freak game try doesn't it? And I think I have the tickets that should accept.