[eagles123]

or should it pass out? Dealer South, it's Matchpoints and NS white EW red

other detail if it matters: everyone on the table plays weak NT 4 card majors



thanks,

Eagles

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[Codo]

Please try the hand generaotr, much easier to read and to follow. Thank you. But I had passed all 4 hands. The south hand is closest to an opening, make it Akx, KJxxx,xx,xxx and I would...

[mikl_plkcc]

South has a marginal hand, all the others are not good openings. (I would upgrade South to 12 due to concentrated values in major suits)

[eagles123]

 Codo, on 2013-June-14, 08:54, said:

Please try the hand generaotr, much easier to read and to follow. Thank you. But I had passed all 4 hands. The south hand is closest to an opening, make it Akx, KJxxx,xx,xxx and I would...

I have edited to be shown by the hand generator.

[TylerE]

I'd open 1♥ as south and 1♣ as west. Clear 3rd seat non-opening for N, even clearer 4th seat passout for E.

[Cyberyeti]

The one I'd be most likely to open is 1N by W, by system I would have to open the south hand 1N if I was going to open it, so would not.

[Hanoi5]

I'd rather open South's hand than West's, especially at this vulnerability. I don't blame them for not opening though.

[Cyberyeti]

 Hanoi5, on 2013-June-14, 09:22, said:

I'd rather open South's hand than West's, especially at this vulnerability. I don't blame them for not opening though.

I missed the vul, saw all 4 hands white, yes I'd probably pass this out then.

[eagles123]

 Cyberyeti, on 2013-June-14, 09:14, said:

The one I'd be most likely to open is 1N by W, by system I would have to open the south hand 1N if I was going to open it, so would not.

I was South here and passed as did everyone else on the table. The reason you give is largely the reason I did pass, I guess with a strong NT system you could open 1H and rebid in no trump but with Weak NT either you open a crappy 5 card Heart suit and be forced to rebid them if p bids 2 of a minor, or open 1N which didn't seem like a good alternative.

Reason I posted the hand was out of 11 tables only 2 passed out so wanted to check my sanity.

Cheers,

Eagles

[billw55]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 09:13, said:

I'd open 1♥ as south and 1♣ as west. Clear 3rd seat non-opening for N, even clearer 4th seat passout for E.

Agree on all counts

[MrAce]

With 4 of me sitting at the table the auction would go like this

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[Cyberyeti]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 09:13, said:

I'd open 1♥ as south and 1♣ as west. Clear 3rd seat non-opening for N, even clearer 4th seat passout for E.

Read the OP, if you play weak NT as specified here, 1♣ not an option W and for many weak NT players, 1♥ not permissible for S, it's P or 1N.

[TylerE]

Why is that? Why I am wanting to open a suit oriented 11 count a 12-14 NT exactly?

[aguahombre]

It truly is a gap in the structure for weak NT players (12-14 or 13-15) not to be able to open 11-count 5-3-3-2
hands 1M when they otherwise would want to do so.

[Cyberyeti]

 TylerE, on 2013-June-14, 13:16, said:

Why is that? Why I am wanting to open a suit oriented 11 count a 12-14 NT exactly?

Because all balanced hands just good enough to open are opened 1N, means 1♣-1♦-2♣ shows 6, and 1♣-1♥-2♣ is either 5♣/4♦ or 6♣ so you can make some good deductions later on. You can get round this by playing a wide range 1N rebid (12-16 or so) which some do, but we play ours above the range for an opening 1N.

Quote

It truly is a gap in the structure for weak NT players (12-14 or 13-15) not to be able to open 11-count 5-3-3-2
hands 1M when they otherwise would want to do so.

Yes and no, knowing 1♠-2♣-2♠ (not 2/1 GF) shows 6 rather than possibly being a weak no trump also has its pluses.

[billw55]

Yeah I missed the bit about weak NT. I do want to open both hands (south and west) and I object to a system that prevents me. But if I have a hard agreement to not open a balanced 11, I guess I must pass. Likewise if regs prevent it, which I object to in advance just in case

[eagles123]

 aguahombre, on 2013-June-14, 13:40, said:

It truly is a gap in the structure for weak NT players (12-14 or 13-15) not to be able to open 11-count 5-3-3-2
hands 1M when they otherwise would want to do so.

I have only been playing bridge for a couple of years so this is just my opinion, but for me ACOL is a fantastic system to learn as it is pretty simple: bids mean what they say in general. However, it is not one for use at a higher level: so to say there is a gap in the system doesn't surprise me at all!

I hope that in a year or two I am playing at a better level, but I hadn't even played a proper duplicate session 6 months ago so got a way to go!

Thanks,

Eagles

[Cyberyeti]

 eagles123, on 2013-June-14, 15:40, said:

I have only been playing bridge for a couple of years so this is just my opinion, but for me ACOL is a fantastic system to learn as it is pretty simple: bids mean what they say in general. However, it is not one for use at a higher level: so to say there is a gap in the system doesn't surprise me at all!

I hope that in a year or two I am playing at a better level, but I hadn't even played a proper duplicate session 6 months ago so got a way to go!

Thanks,

Eagles

You can plug a lot of the holes in Acol and it's still good to a very decent level. If you want to open balanced 11s, either play an 11-14 1N and play something more sophisticated over it or play 11-13, a wide range 1N rebid and add a point onto what you need to 2/1, we don't bother but decide some 11s are worth 12.

[Zelandakh]

 aguahombre, on 2013-June-14, 13:40, said:

It truly is a gap in the structure for weak NT players (12-14 or 13-15) not to be able to open 11-count 5-3-3-2 hands 1M when they otherwise would want to do so.

If you want to open 11 count 5332 hands then you just re-label the 1NT range as (11)12-14. Just the same as those who open most of their 14 point 5332 hands with a 14+-17 1NT. It is hardly a gap. There are many things wrong with Acol but this is really the least of issues. I also agree with eagles that it is an excellent system for learning the game.

[aguahombre]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-June-17, 05:04, said:

If you want to open 11 count 5332 hands then you just re-label the 1NT range as (11)12-14. Just the same as those who open most of their 14 point 5332 hands with a 14+-17 1NT. It is hardly a gap. There are many things wrong with Acol but this is really the least of issues. I also agree with eagles that it is an excellent system for learning the game.

Yes, it is true that if you change your ranges because of a gap there is no longer a gap. thank you for sharing.

As a personal preference, I open balanced 11's with a five card major; and if I had to open them 1NT instead of 1M, I wouldn't like it as much.