[wyman]

MPs, mediocre field.

We are silent.

1D-1H;
2D-3N;
5D-6D.

Sitting over the 6D bidder, do you dbl with Kxxx / Kxxx / void / T8xxx ?

Does your answer change if you're in a good field?

[Lord Molyb]

no
and probably not
I'm assuming a 'mediocre field' is about my skill level.

[billw55]

Four signoffs in one auction, impressive. However I will not double despite the bidding. If they have blundered into a bad slam, we are booked for a good score anyway.

[the_clown]

I dont double, will not be surprised if they make 7.

[billw55]

the_clown, on 2013-June-13, 08:37, said:

I dont double, will not be surprised if they make 7.

... likewise if they have blundered into a good slam, there is nothing I can do about it.

Lastly, a double should be Lightner, inducing partner to go void-hunting. He won't be amused when it turns out to be trumps.

[aguahombre]

billw55, on 2013-June-13, 07:53, said:

Four signoffs in one auction, impressive. However I will not double despite the bidding. If they have blundered into a bad slam, we are booked for a good score anyway.

Picky here, but 3 signoffs. 2D is allegedly showing limited strength, but responder is still unlimited and in charge at that point.

Your decision to pass and let whatever happens happen is correct, IMO.

[neilkaz]

the_clown, on 2013-June-13, 08:37, said:

I dont double, will not be surprised if they make 7.

We agree.

[TylerE]

At MP I would consider it. If it's a good slam the field isn't finding we're booked for a zero already....but if we don't double 6♦-1 or -2 might push with 3N down the same.

[aguahombre]

billw55, on 2013-June-13, 08:57, said:

... likewise if they have blundered into a good slam, there is nothing I can do about it.

Lastly, a double should be Lightner, inducing partner to go void-hunting. He won't be amused when it turns out to be trumps.

You will find the other void outside diamonds to be in Opener's hand.

[lowerline]

wyman, on 2013-June-13, 07:46, said:

MPs, mediocre field.

We are silent.

1D-1H;
2D-3N;
5D-6D.

Sitting over the 6D bidder, do you dbl with Kxxx / Kxxx / void / T8xxx ?

Does your answer change if you're in a good field?

Looks like this already is a top or bottom deal... I want partner to make his normal lead. So I'm not doubling.

Steven

[wyman]

billw55, on 2013-June-13, 07:53, said:

If they have blundered into a bad slam, we are booked for a good score anyway.

the_clown, on 2013-June-13, 08:37, said:

I dont double, will not be surprised if they make 7.

Keep in mind that doubler is not really doubling to increase the penalty. He's doubling for a major suit lead, probably a heart through, since he's seriously unlikely to be void in a side suit on this auction (since he very clearly has short diamonds). And if they make, or make 7, no harm has been done unless we've redirected a killing lead into a fatal one.

lowerline, on 2013-June-14, 01:44, said:

Looks like this already is a top or bottom deal... I want partner to make his normal lead. So I'm not doubling.

Yes, it's very clearly a top or bottom deal, as all slams are in this field. The opposite of this was actually part of doubler's argument at the table. "From my side, it looks like your most likely lead is a club, which could be a disaster."

Cat out of the bag -- there is no dispute. Both of us agreed with the double. But apparently we disagree with all of you. Interested in thoughts about doubler's reasoning.

[billw55]

wyman, on 2013-June-14, 07:04, said:

Yes, it's very clearly a top or bottom deal, as all slams are in this field. The opposite of this was actually part of doubler's argument at the table. "From my side, it looks like your most likely lead is a club, which could be a disaster."

Sure it could be a disaster. So could a major suit lead. When I demand a lead, I want a better reason than Kxxx to take partner off his natural lead. On this bidding, partner could easily have an honor sequence in any suit.

Yes, it could all be true that the heart bidder has ♥AQ, and that we need to set up the ♥K as the setting trick right away while partner still has his entry (an ace perhaps). Or maybe not. I am just not sure enough to bet on it.

[Phil]

Quote

Sitting over the 6D bidder, do you dbl with Kxxx / Kxxx / void / T8xxx ?

wyman, on 2013-June-14, 07:04, said:

Keep in mind that doubler is not really doubling to increase the penalty. He's doubling for a major suit lead, probably a heart through, since he's seriously unlikely to be void in a side suit on this auction (since he very clearly has short diamonds).

[aguahombre]

Is there more to your post than the two quotes, Phil?

The one who bid 6D is not Declarer.

[gszes]

except in the rare instances where you are able to show p the right
lead in the bidding a 6 level x should mean i intend to set this no matter
what you lead (think forcing pass situations for ex) OR they are a
lightner type x which ask for a very unusual lead usually a surprise
void. When you are obviously short in trumps the lead is asking p to
make an unusual lead which in this situation has to be hearts since both
spades and clubs would be considered normal given the bidding.

Even if we agree that the x asks for a heart lead is it a good idea to
x. I think not since we are unlikely to lose the heart K if we are due
to get a heart trick and we might possibly spell doom to the defense
if p avoids their normal spade lead from QJx and leads a heart with
dummy hitting the table with AQJT and using the heart pitches to avoid
spade losers.

IMO we have no rational reason to assume p has a natural club lead and no
rational reason to assume their normal lead is not sufficient to set the contract.
Given these conclusions

pass

and save your x for very clear situations (like when the opps were supposed to be
in 7 and your well timed x held them to 6x making 6 for a zero sigh)

[Phil]

aguahombre, on 2013-June-14, 09:34, said:

Is there more to your post than the two quotes, Phil?

The one who bid 6D is not Declarer.

Oh. OK.

[ggwhiz]

wyman, on 2013-June-13, 07:46, said:

Does your answer change if you're in a good field?

As an aside, most of the good players in town avoided playing in mediocre fields on the grounds that fish killing would lead to bad habits in their overall game.

The solution for those pairs that did was to play most often like rookie opponents were world class, settle for 80-90% scores instead of pounding them and maintain your system integrity. I thought it was really good advice.

[JLOGIC]

Wyman I would not double because I think partner making whatever he thinks the best lead is is better than partner almost always leading a heart (since I think X asks for a heart lead). It's not that likely a heart lead is necessary to beat them imo, it's more likely a spade is required and I don't want to stop partner from leading that. Of course a club lead might be bad.

That said I think people will automatically hate actions like Xing too much, at least the guy considering it had a reasonable reason.

[wyman]

Sorry about my delay returning to this thread. Life got in the way for a few days, and this thread got buried in my 'new content' feed.

Thanks for all of your thoughts.

@Justin, I thought X suggested a heart lead as well, and it was not a success, which we both realized when dummy hit with ♦AK and ♥Jxxx and declarer had ♥AQ. I forget now whether we could've beat it on a spade lead, but IIRC the natural lead was indeed a club, which also lets it make, so nbd on this deal.