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Partner opens 4 Hearts And you have some good cards...

#1 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:03

All red, you hold:

♠AKJ
♥J
♦J98
♣AK76xx

(Pa)-4♥-(Pa)-???

We do not play NAMYATS.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:08

Does partner have more than one way of opening 4♥?
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#3 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:30

Pass for me.

For any sane 4♥ opening, I can't see us avoiding 2 red suit losers.
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#4 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:45

View PostTylerE, on 2013-May-17, 08:30, said:

Pass for me.

For any sane 4♥ opening, I can't see us avoiding 2 red suit losers.


Partner could easily have either of these hands:

x
AKTxxxxx
x
xxx

x
KQTxxxxx
Ax
xx

or any hand with 9 hearts to the AK and a single diamond.

I play that 5♦ is an asking bid over 4♥ (step responses - no control, second round control, first round control). The issue is whether my hand is good enough to commit to the 5 level while revealing the diamond weakness.

I take the plunge. 5♦. My hope is that he has good enough hearts so that if he has second round diamond control or better slam will make, and if he does not have second round control of diamonds that we do not lose 3 tricks.
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#5 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:52

8 winner hands are too strong in my book for a 4♥ opening.

AKT8th and stiff will lose to Qxx♥ often enough that I don't feel that upset if it happens to make. It's far from a sure thing.
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#6 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:58

How about exclusion blackwood showing a diamond void? I don't play it so have no idea if it's possible here.

Otherwise I'm blasting 6♥ as 2nd seat is the real deal in my partnership and it will take a parlay of 2 diamond losers plus the lead to beat it.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 08:58

View PostTylerE, on 2013-May-17, 08:52, said:

8 winner hands are too strong in my book for a 4♥ opening.

Which makes the OP's question impossible to handle. If there is no expectation from the 4H opening, everything is a crapshoot.
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#8 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 09:06

You're red against red and the opening was at the second seat, what are the standards for that?

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 09:14

I'll try 5C, hoping partner shows a D control. 2nd in, all vul, he should have at least 7-4 with AKQxxxx hearts or equivalent, so it's really just about avoiding two quick diamond losers.

ahydra
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#10 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 09:14

pass. Not only is it right the majority of the time, but it also puts pressure on the opponents to reopen the auction.
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#11 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 09:37

I thought I was aggressive and I'm not even considering moving here...
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#12 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 09:42

View PostHanoi5, on 2013-May-17, 09:06, said:

You're red against red and the opening was at the second seat, what are the standards for that?

I don't know. If you say that, although NAMYATS is not in use, you neverthess have a certain trick-taking and purity expectation at various colors ---then the problem might be manageable.
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#13 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 14:58

My old partner Bob Holmes used to preach that a second-seat preempt needed to be really sound by agreement because RHO has already passed so there is only one opponent left to preempt (or fool with). There is probably something to that thinking though not enough to make me move toward slam, even with this hand. If the vul had been red vs white, though, I would rethink this.
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#14 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 18:02

Obv pass
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#15 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 18:58

not playing namyats the most partner can really have is ♠xx ♥AKxxxxxx ♦x ♣x but there is no safety in figuring out whether he does.
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#16 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2013-May-17, 18:59

Pass. Glp.
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#17 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2013-May-18, 00:36

View Postahydra, on 2013-May-17, 09:14, said:

I'll try 5C, hoping partner shows a D control. 2nd in, all vul, he should have at least 7-4 with AKQxxxx hearts or equivalent, so it's really just about avoiding two quick diamond losers.

If you expect 7-4, isn't that a good reason not to move? His 4-card suit is at least as likely to be in diamonds as in spades, so if he has no diamond control you're quite likely to go down in 5♠.
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#18 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-May-18, 01:31

Easy pass, the chance of ♦ being wide open is huge and there are no guarantees we won't lose a trump trick either.
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#19 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2013-May-18, 04:13

View PostArtK78, on 2013-May-17, 08:45, said:

Partner could easily have either of these hands:

x
AKTxxxxx
x
xxx

What a nice T of hearts!

Quote

x
KQTxxxxx
Ax
xx

And another nice T of hearts!!

Given that your examples are well-fitting maximums, and you still needed the magical T of hearts to make them pretty good, they should be enough to convince you to pass 4H.
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#20 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2013-May-18, 08:50

It's not impossible for a 4♥ preempt to have first and second round control in one red suit and a second round control in the other. But if you are betting on it, odds are that you will lose.

Rik
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