[yunling]

♠Q92
♥KQT9
♦AK7
♣A43

Partner opens 1♥, and after a series of relays, 3♠ turns up to you and p has shown either 8- or 11+ QPs and 4-5-1-3 shape.
Now you have the following choices available:
4♣:start Denial cue bid
4♦:puppet to 4♥, usually shows a signoff
4♥:RKC for the longer minor
4♠:RKC for ♥
4NT: RKC for ♠
5x:"quantitive invitation"

So, is this method reasonable? What will you do now?

[Zelandakh]

Do we have the option of raising on round one? For example, the auction might go:
1♥ - 2NT;
3♣ = min + shortage
... - 3♦ = where?
3NT = short diamond
... - 4♦ = spade control

then

4♥ = no
4♠ = yes, and 1 key card
4NT = yes, and 0 or 3 key cards
5♣ = yes, and 2 key cards without ♥Q or a 6th heart
5♦ = yes, and 2 key cards with ♥Q or 6+ hearts

After 3♠ in a relay auction like this, I play:
4♣ = continue relays (DCBs)
4♦ = to play 4♥ or RKCB in ♦♥♠
4♥ = RKCB for clubs
4♠/5m = to play

If you play 4♦ as a terminator then I would expect 4♥ and 4♠ to be RKCB in whichever suits match your relay break rules. Similarly, in this style you need to define the difference between a direct 5♥ and 4♦ followed by raising 4♥ to 5. The latter probably makes more sense as the invite, leaving a direct 5♥ for something specific, preferably whichever piece of information is most difficult for you to get out of your relay scheme.

[Free]

How do you respond to your Daniel (whoever that is) cuebid?

[akhare]

Can you provide us more context on your system?

Does QP in your post use the A=3, K=2 and Q=1 scale and if so, what is the lower range on the 8- QP?

[yunling]

2NT response to 1H is weak with minors or a LR or GF with 5+S&3+H, so it is not available

For DCB, we scan suits by their length, so 1st step for longest suit.
For any 3+ card suit, the step shows 0/2 of top 3, a skip shows 1/3.
For a singleton, the step shows A or K.

We open most 11's, so with A=3,K=2,Q=1, a minimum opener can have as few as 5(4?) QP, but usually in the 8-range it is 7 or 8.

[PhilKing]

Free, on 2013-May-17, 10:29, said:

How do you respond to your Daniel (whoever that is) cuebid?

It's a translation issue - he means Denial cue bid (which is a bit like De Amazon Cue Bid ).

[yunling]

Free, on 2013-May-17, 10:29, said:

How do you respond to your Daniel (whoever that is) cuebid?

My mistake
If only had I improved my poor English!

[PhilKing]

.

[PhilKing]

yunling, on 2013-May-17, 20:03, said:

My mistake
If only had I improved my poor English!

你的英語比我的中文好多了

[rbforster]

yunling, on 2013-May-17, 08:34, said:

♠Q92
♥KQT9
♦AK7
♣A43

Partner opens 1♥, and after a series of relays, 3♠ turns up to you and p has shown either 8- or 11+ QPs and 4-5-1-3 shape.
Now you have the following choices available:
4♣:start Denial cue bid
4♠:kickback RKC
5♥:"quantitive invitation"

So, is this method reasonable? What will you do now?

Your method seems fine. More fancy things are possible of course, but you get the vast majority of the slam investigation benefits if you can do both Denial Cues or RKC depending on responder's hand.

Here I would use Denial Cues. Partner is almost certainly on a minimum with 7-8 QPs and may easily reject an invitation when pretty much any 8 QP hand will make six (AAK). I would use cue bidding to find out about secondary honors (or their lack) in spades and clubs, which seems to be key to the investigation. Although it depends a little on how weak you open, I'd say with 19-20 QPs between you and a good fit, slam should be pretty likely.

[akhare]

rbforster, on 2013-May-18, 06:09, said:

Your method seems fine. More fancy things are possible of course, but you get the vast majority of the slam investigation benefits if you can do both Denial Cues or RKC depending on responder's hand.

Here I would use Denial Cues. Partner is almost certainly on a minimum with 7-8 QPs and may easily reject an invitation when pretty much any 8 QP hand will make six (AAK). I would use cue bidding to find out about secondary honors (or their lack) in spades and clubs, which seems to be key to the investigation. Although it depends a little on how weak you open, I'd say with 19-20 QPs between you and a good fit, slam should be pretty likely.

In addition to the above, you may also want to look into using 4♦ as the canonical "terminator puppet" for maximum flexibility. This allows a RKC ask in a variety of suits.

You can find examples of the "terminator puppet" and RKC in the Richard's Moscito document among other places:

rationalbridge.org/dosyalar/doc_download/39-moscito.html

[yunling]

rbforster, on 2013-May-18, 06:09, said:

Your method seems fine. More fancy things are possible of course, but you get the vast majority of the slam investigation benefits if you can do both Denial Cues or RKC depending on responder's hand.

Here I would use Denial Cues. Partner is almost certainly on a minimum with 7-8 QPs and may easily reject an invitation when pretty much any 8 QP hand will make six (AAK). I would use cue bidding to find out about secondary honors (or their lack) in spades and clubs, which seems to be key to the investigation. Although it depends a little on how weak you open, I'd say with 19-20 QPs between you and a good fit, slam should be pretty likely.

No, a "quantitive invitation" is made when p is supposed to hold no more than 8QP, so will be accepted on almost all 8 QP hands.
For the 11+ QP hands, usually responder will find that slam is not possible opposite an 8QP and bid a 4D puppet, when you can reject to show 11+.

[Free]

yunling, on 2013-May-17, 20:03, said:

My mistake
If only had I improved my poor English!

That's fine, but you didn't answer my question

[yunling]

Free, on 2013-May-19, 00:44, said:

That's fine, but you didn't answer my question

So #5 has not given you a clear clue? I find it really hard to describe…

[Free]

yunling, on 2013-May-19, 23:09, said:

So #5 has not given you a clear clue? I find it really hard to describe…

Yeah, but how do you know the difference between 8- or 11+ QP? And how do you know how many QP he has exactly (which is very important for denial cuebidding)? Lots of issues can pop up.