[gnasher]

There's one other method that I've seen, described by Marshall Miles in Bridge From The Top. Opener shows his suitability in steps: bad, average, good, excellent. Then responder can sign off in 4NT or one of the trump suits (except opposite the "excellent" hand), or he can bid a new suit as a keycard-ask. Miles suggests a numerical method where aces and key kings are 2 and key queens are 1, but you could play two-suits Keycard instead, or you could have responder show how many keycards he has.

[Zelandakh]

JLOGIC, on 2013-May-16, 12:37, said:

Seems like a no brainer to play this unless you do something else very useful with your 3D 3H 3S (I have heard of some people playing that it shows a 4 card minor with 4m direct showing 5 which also seems very good).

When I first designed this part of the system, this is roughly what I put in. However, I now think the transfers are simply better. There is an added bonus for me in that this also mirrors precisely what I like to play over a 1NT opening. Incidentally, I think there is a reasonable argument to drop 3♠ Smolen after a 2NT opening, since this sequence can usefully be employed to help with probing for minor suit slams, whereas the 5♥4♠ hand is comparatively easy to handle elsewhere.

FrancesHinden, on 2013-May-19, 04:41, said:

AQx
Ax
KJxx
AQxx

Kx
KQxxx
AQxx
xx

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-May-19, 06:39, said:

But how would you bid it ? ( I assume using your transfer method ) ?

How about

2NT - 3♦;
3♥ - 4♣ (diamonds);
4♦ - 4♥ (RKCB);
4♠ - 5♣ (K ask);
5♦ - 5♠ (SSA);
6♣ - 7♦?

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2013-May-21, 06:57, said:

How about

2NT - 3♦;
3♥ - 4♣ (diamonds);
4♦ - 4♥ (RKCB);
4♠

At this point I'd be trying to decide between 7♦ and 7NT. With diamonds 3-2 and hearts 4-2/3-3 we can count 13 tricks in diamonds unless partner has specifically AJxx Ax KJxx AQJx, but even opposite that 7♦ is pretty good.

Finding 7NT when it's right is tricky, because it will usually depend on whether partner has ♥J as well as some extra black-suit winners. For example, opposite AQxx AJ Kxxx AKxx we want to play 7NT, but opposite either AQxx Ax KJxx AKxx or AJxx AJ Kxxx AQJx we should be in 7♦.

[PhilKing]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-May-18, 09:58, said:

I'm afraid you are basically in a minority of one here.
How do you expect to bid

AKxx
Kx
AQxx
Axx

opposite

xx
AQxxx
KJxx
xx
?

2NT 3♦
3♥ 4♦
5♥ (1 or 4 auto 6 ace reply for minor) 5♠(Spiral)
6♦ (Q♦, K♠, no ♣K)-7♦

Available in over 30 "equivalent" two-suited auctions.

[Zelandakh]

You missed the context Phil. Frances' question was how to bid the hand if making a transfer and showing a second suit promised at least 5-5.

[Zelandakh]

gnasher, on 2013-May-21, 10:46, said:

At this point I'd be trying to decide between 7♦ and 7NT. With diamonds 3-2 and hearts 4-2/3-3 we can count 13 tricks in diamonds unless partner has specifically AJxx Ax KJxx AQJx, but even opposite that 7♦ is pretty good.

Finding 7NT when it's right is tricky, because it will usually depend on whether partner has ♥J as well as some extra black-suit winners. For example, opposite AQxx AJ Kxxx AKxx we want to play 7NT, but opposite either AQxx Ax KJxx AKxx or AJxx AJ Kxxx AQJx we should be in 7♦.

In the sequence I gave, Opener has denied a side king and shown the ♠Q so several of these hands are not possible.

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2013-May-22, 02:18, said:

In the sequence I gave, Opener has denied a side king and shown the ♠Q so several of these hands are not possible.

Yes. I wasn't discussing the auction you'd have opposite that specific opening hand, where all roads lead to 7♦. My point was that if you are opposite a hand where 7NT is right, it's hard to fnd out about it.

For example, in your auction, if responder shows ♣K, you still won't know whether to play 7♦ or 7NT, because it depends on whether opener has ♥J.

Or, after opener denied a king, he might have had AQJx AJ Kxxx AJxx, where 7NT is about 95% but 7♦ is a mere 68%. Maybe opener would convert to 7NT with this, though.

[Zelandakh]

Yes, you are right about this. Do you have any suggestions? Aside from adding a step for QJ to the SSA (which has its own problems) it is difficult to see any way of getting the required information here outside of having started 1♣ and relayed (which is a little bit more than a small tweak).

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2013-May-22, 04:27, said:

Yes, you are right about this. Do you have any suggestions? Aside from adding a step for QJ to the SSA (which has its own problems) it is difficult to see any way of getting the required information here outside of having started 1♣ and relayed (which is a little bit more than a small tweak).

Asking bids after Keycard aren't really my speciality, but it seems to me that in this auction the red-suit jacks are more important than the black-suit queens. For the specific case of a two-suiter opposite a balanced hand perhaps you should change the meaning of one of your new-suit bids, eg 5♠ in your auction. Or if you were playing spirals you could change the order to something like: keycards, queen of trumps, long side-suit king, short side-suit kings, long side-suit queen, jack of trumps, long side-suit jack.

I can vaguely remember Phil telling me about asking for the jack of trumps, in about 1990, so maybe he's already got a set of rules to cover this.