[dustinst22]

If you were preparing for an event with say 60 board matches, what slam agreements would you consider to be mandatory (in order of priority)?

[mikeh]

dustinst22, on 2013-May-06, 12:31, said:

If you were preparing for an event with say 60 board matches, what slam agreements would you consider to be mandatory (in order of priority)?

1. Keycard: 1430 or 0314? Make sure you discuss the Q ask responses, whether you play specific Kings, and how/when to show voids

2. Kickback (discuss when it is on)

3. Cuebidding style: generally up the line, showing convenient 1st or 2nd round controls: but never shortness as the first cue

4. splinters: define the range (I prefer limited splinters)

5. Defence to interference over keycard (happens rarely but you need to get it right)

6. Exclusion, including a simple definition

7. when is 5N pick a slam

8. responses to GSF, when 5N is gsf.

9. Gerber and supergerber (5♣ over a natural 3N)

Serious 3N is popular but frankly I have only played it in one serious partnership and don't think it makes enough difference, on the few hands when it arises or you have the inference from not using it, to be worth implementing unless you have both played it before.

The same is true of Last Train: it is useful but doesn't come up very often at all, and is the sort of bid that partner may forget (which you will probably survive if he should have used it but you may be in a world of trouble if you use it and he drives too high, thinking you've just cued)

If you used either, then I'd place them in 5th/6th position in the above list, but I wouldn't ever recommend them to a new partner just before a big match

[Codo]

dustinst22, on 2013-May-06, 12:31, said:

If you were preparing for an event with say 60 board matches, what slam agreements would you consider to be mandatory (in order of priority)?

1. Cuebidding style: generally up the line, showing convenient 1st or 2nd round controls: but never shortness as the first cue- in partners suit.

2.Keycard: 1430 or 0314? Make sure you discuss the Q ask responses, whether you play specific Kings, and how/when to show voids

3. splinters: define the range and the follow ups. Is the next bid a control or chicane Keycard?

4. 4 ♣/ 4 ♦ is "always" conditional minorwood. Yes I know, better players then me disagree strongly, but it helps to know whether 4 of a minor is forcing and what to do aftert this bid....

5. Serious 3 NT. Frivolous is often better, but to me serious is easier to play.

6. Exclusion,

7. when is 5N pick a slam and later bidding


I kicked kickback out of this list because it needs even more tuning to handle then serious 3NT... Espacially when there is more then one suit involved.

[mycroft]

what is 4NT after Stayman and/or Transfers; if it's quantitative, how do you set the suit to keycard later. Is it different after 1NT starts than after 2NT?

I've had more disagreements about these auctions than any other single slam issue.

One that might be worth discussing basically on the "if we don't discuss it, it'll come up": First round. 4NT opening is...? 1x-4NT is...?

[Zelandakh]

The level of the partnership matters here. For example, many club/intermediate players do not play any cue bids at all.

1. 4NT: when is it RKCB and what are the responses (1430/3041) and follow-ups? You can also add follow-ups to a quantitative 4NT here (although that is less important).
2. cue bidding: do we?! Assuming yes, when does the cue bid show extras and when only a curtesy; and in what style? You cannot really discuss this without talking about Serious/Frivolous either imho, so let's add this in here too. If we do play Serious/Frivolous, then when does it apply and is the call 3NT or the first step? Also necessary is to discuss higher cue bidding.
3. splinters: most importantly the range. Also good to discuss when we cue bid over a splinter and when we just make a slam try. That naturally leads to a discussion of Last Train, which might be worth extending into the cue bidding style. Also to be included here if you have time is the case of an unnecessary splinter jump, which may easily lead to agreeing XRKCB. If Exclusion is agreed then check if the responses are 3041 if you agreed 1430 for regular RKCB. Similarly, it is worth discussing a jump reverse here.
4. forcing pass: something that has not been mentioned yet. Most important is to decide when they are on. While on the subject you might as well also discuss what the various slam tries mean.
5. minor suit slamming: linked to our cue bidding style is our style of advanced cue bids after 3 level minor agreement. Then we also need to agree what is the key card ask thereafter. The situation for 4 level minor agreement is different and needs its own discussion. Similarly, you can throw in here whether cue/4th suit then 4m is stronger or weaker than a direct 4m. If weaker, is it also passable?
6. difficult auctions: another thing I did not see mentioned yet is the case when we are slammy but have little space left. That might be because the fit did not appear until quite late, or because we needed to jump, or after a preempt. You need some meta-rules here for things like a 4 level cue bid, a cue bid in the opponents' suit versus skipping this, etc. I think this leads naturally into another important discussion, on 5NT and when this is pick a slam versus GSF. Within this section is also the more general question of showing a good hand in competition - X and bid; cue bid; jumps in a new suit; etc.
7. alternative key card asking: I made this a general heading because it covers not only Kickback, Minorwood and Voidwood but also extras like asks after we preempt, Gerber, the 4NT opening and an immediate 4NT response.
8. Not strictly slamming per se, but I would say that it is far more important for slam purposes to agree such points as whether a reverse shows extras or not when playing 2/1. If your base system is right then you can get by with fairly rudimentary vanilla tools later on. If very limited for time I would think that discussion of key points here was more important for slamming than everything else except RKCB.

[PhilKing]

None.

Just bid a lot of hands online with the generator cranked up and discuss the issues along the way. This will help identify technical and style issues as you go.

At the end of each bidding session document the new things agreed.

[SteveMoe]

1. GF then Fit then Controls then Keycard (1430) when all suits controlled sufficiently.
2. Italian Style control bids.
3. Two Range Splinters. Self-splinters after transfers.
4. Baze over 1NT.
5. 1N-3♥♠ = 3=1=45, 1=3=45 slammish and 2N-3♠=minor suit slam try.
6. Minorwood. 4♣ as 1430 when opener shows a major.
7. Picture Jumps and 3-bids requiring Control Bids.
8. Frivolous 3N and Last Train Control Bids
9. 4♣ RKB over partner's 3-level preempts (0, 1, 1+Q, 2, 2+Q)
10. Exclusion, preferably after a splinter bid, and not at the 5-level.

[gnasher]

- Keycard responses, including the queen ask, the king ask and dealing with interference.
- Cue-bidding style.
- Serious or non-serious 3NT, with a simple rule about when it applies.
- 4NT with a minor agreed.
- When 5NT is pick-a-slam and when it's GSF.
- Responses to GSF.
- When a jump is Exclusion.

[cherdano]

mikeh, on 2013-May-06, 14:06, said:

2. Kickback (discuss when it is on)

Wow, if you are saying it's mandatory to play kickback, I could not disagree more strongly.

Edit: (Maybe you meant "never" as an acceptable choice, then I certainly agree!)

[gnasher]

cherdano, on 2013-May-09, 05:27, said:

Wow, if you are saying it's mandatory to play kickback, I could not disagree more strongly.

Edit: (Maybe you meant "never" as an acceptable choice, then I certainly agree!)

I was also surprised by the final item on Mike's list. I bid Gerber less than once a year, and I don't think I've ever wanted to bid SuperGerber.

[mycroft]

In a very established partnership of mine, we bid Gerber three times in three years.

First time, I gave the Blackwood response at the 4 level.
Second time, I gave the right Gerber response - at the 5 level.
Third time, we were playing "Gerber after Stayman only"... and I bid 4♣. Partner forgot it was to play.

Now, unless I'm playing a well-established partnership that has heard this story and is willing to deal with it, my response is "No Gerber Ever." About once a year, I have a problem with that. About three times a year, it's really nice to be able to make an unambiguous 4♣ call.

Frankly, at the levels I play, NGE gains more from partner having to think rather than reflexively pulling out Mr.G. than it loses in "but Gerber *is* the right bid here." *Especially* in my non-regular partnerships.

[Siegmund]

Disappointed to see people putting RKC at the top of their priority lists. Sigh.

The highlights have mostly all been mentioned - cuebidding style, splintering style and possibly having more than one range for them, knowing for a certainty what is forcing and what is not (1-1-1-3s, followups to inverted minors, among others.)

If there is one thing I would add to the list, it is how disciplined your preempts are and how many tricks they promise. Sequences like 4C(7 tricks)-6C(5 cover cards) that go 3C-5C at the other table where they don't have a firm grasp of that are some very low hanging fruit.

If I were to add a second thing to the list, it would be a brief visit of competitive auctions: when is forcing pass on? pass and pull strongest action? difference beween cuebidding and jump raising after michaels? that type of thing.

[32519]

mikeh, on 2013-May-06, 14:06, said:

1. Keycard: 1430 or 0314? Make sure you discuss the Q ask responses, whether you play specific Kings, and how/when to show voids

There is more to this than just agreeing which one you play. I think it was Eddie Kantar who said "switch" to 1430 when the strong hand is doing the asking. "Switch" to 0314 when the weak hand is doing the asking.

mikeh, on 2013-May-06, 14:06, said:

3. Cuebidding style: generally up the line, showing convenient 1st or 2nd round controls: but never shortness as the first cue

I don't think enough intermediates understand the importance of this (my F2F partner included). Cuebidding up the line BEFORE embarking on a RKCB ask often reveals a suit where neither partner holds a control. No point in doing RKCB now

[32519]

SteveMoe, on 2013-May-08, 20:38, said:

4. Baze over 1NT.

wt is baze?

[Zelandakh]

32519, on 2013-May-09, 23:33, said:

There is more to this than just agreeing which one you play. I think it was Eddie Kantar who said "switch" to 1430 when the strong hand is doing the asking. "Switch" to 0314 when the weak hand is doing the asking.

While there is a theoretical advantage to playing 3041 when a strong hand is answering, 01122 when a preemnpt is answering and 1430 otherwise, this is not something that should even be considered for a new partnership looking for priorities for what they should discuss. Similarly, mycroft's "No Gerber ever" is sensible advice for such a pair.

32519, on 2013-May-09, 23:33, said:

I don't think enough intermediates understand the importance of this (my F2F partner included). Cuebidding up the line BEFORE embarking on a RKCB ask often reveals a suit where neither partner holds a control. No point in doing RKCB now

I already pointed out that many players of this level do not play cue bids at all. Having played this style on many occasions I will point out that the number of times where it matters is actually very small. There are also positives to these bids being natural slam tries. Cue bids are better than this of course, and it is certainly cool to say how much more important they are than RKCB; but truth be told, RKCB is just a very useful tool and far more important.

32519, on 2013-May-09, 23:38, said:

wt is baze?

Baze is a system of follow-ups after a 2M response to Stayman. Many very good players use it, although I personally think there are better methods since it gives up on agreeing the major cheaply for a cue bid auction in favour of RKCG. Some play a modified version that helps a little bit with this.

[gnasher]

Siegmund, on 2013-May-09, 22:48, said:

Disappointed to see people putting RKC at the top of their priority lists. Sigh.

Putting it at the top of the list of things to discuss isn't a commitment to use it more often than anything else. It's important to discuss RKCB because there are two common ways to play it.

If I were to sit down opposite, say, MickyB, we would probably both be on roughly the same wavelength about cue-bidding style, strength of splinters, use of 5NT, non-use of SuperGerber, etc. Without specific agreement, we'd have no idea whether we were playing 1430 or 4031.

[jgillispie]

I recommend the following treatment:

1. Minorwood: Be sure to discuss when 4♣/♦ is Minorwood in competition (if at all)
2. Kickback for Majors: 4♠ for hearts, 4NT for spades. Be sure you determine the auction 1NT-2♣-2♠-4NT as either quantitative or Blackwood
3. 5NT is always Pick A Slam: The obvious exceptions are over 1NT, etc.

I would use standard RKC w/queen ask for the above. Showing kings is left to partnership agreement.

4. A jump to 5 of the bid suit is Grand Slam Force: These bids never are used for much else, so make use of them somehow..
5. Control Showing/Excluding Cuebids: Bid up the line, a jump cuebid invites to 7 and asks for a control in the bid suit
6. When choosing between 6 of a suit and 6NT, consider where you are getting your tricks...

[nige1]

IMO you should both know your methods (whatever they are) and establish a rapport (as far as judgement is concerned). Here are some methods with which I'm familiar. (but, of course, none are mandatory)

• Club system with relays and asking bids (hoping right-side the contract and to conceal declarer's hand as far as possible).
• Minor-fit finding methods on strong hands e.g. over notrump-openers (slightly more important at IMPs than pairs)
• 3-suiter handiling methods (low frequency but effective when they come up).
• Mini-splinters over majors, Fit jumps over minors.
• Last train, Serous 3N, and a Stop signal.
• Automatic aces, Exclusion. Modified Gerber 4♣ over pre-empts (0, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 keys).
• 5N pick a slam (and other blame-transfers -- especially useful when the auction makes no sense).

[awm]

1. Discussion of which situations require a cuebid versus where cuebids show extras. Serious/Non serious 3nt is nice here but not a mandatory agreement.

2. Discussion of cuebid style (I like up the line but most important is to have some agreement).

3. When is 4nt ace asking vs. not? Same for any other call that might be ace asking.

4. Is a voluntary 5M bid just a general try or does it ask for a specific control?

5. When can we stop in 4m in a non-competitive auction?

6. In which auctions can we bid and raise a minor and yet land in 4M?

7. The usual "which keycard" type questions.