Help
So responder makes a semipositive and RHO interferes. We've started to come up with some agreements but maybe awm and sieong can tell us what they use here...
1C-1H (1S)
.....dbl-is relaying?
.....P-nothing to say?
.....Rubensohl?
1C-1H (2C)
.....dbl-artificial GF? perhaps this should just be takeout whenever we have Rubensohl available
.....2S-3-fit?
.....2N+ Rubensohl?
1C-1H (3D)
.....dbl-artificial GF? thrump?
.....3H-obviously forcing
ok now...
1C-1H (1S) P P
.....dbl-penalty?
1C-1H (2C) P P
.....dbl-takeout (could have 5S/4H)
.....2D-5D, forcing
.....2H-5H, forcing
.....2S-6S, nf
.....jumps and cue are forcing
1C-1H (3D) P P
.....dbl-takeout (could have 5S/4H or 6S planning GF)
..........will opener often then support with only three spades? what does he bid with 3S/4H?
.....3H-5H, forcing
.....3S-6S, nonforcing? (compare to double and then 3S)
and responder shows hearts
1C-1N (2C)
.....P-nothing to say or trapping
.....dbl-basically we've agreed that any time opener doubles the relay asking bid that we are in relay mode. Perhaps pass should do that instead?
.....2D-natural, nf
.....2H-2-fit
.....2S-natural, nf
.....Rubensohl (seems a duplication since with GF we will want to relay)
1C-1N (2D)
.....P-nothing to say or trapping
.....dbl-artificial GF
.....2H-2-fit
.....2S-natural, nf
.....Rubensohl
1C-1N (3D)
.....P-nothing to say or trapping
.....dbl-thrump/artificial GF
.....3H-fit, nf
.....3S-natural, GF
1C-1N (2C) P P
.....dbl-takeout
.....2D-4D, f
.....2H-6H, nf
.....2S-?
1C-1N (3D) P P
.....dbl-takeout?
..........assume opener bids spades with 5, else hearts with 2
.....3H-nf
.....3S-rebidding hearts, GF? or should this show clubs or something?
We have similar "impossible" bids after 1C-2C (overcall) and after 1C-2D (3D) in which responder can bid a higher ranking suit that he is known not to have. What should these bids mean?
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Imprecision interference
#1
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Posted 2013-May-05, 21:35
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,084
- Joined: 2009-January-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Vancouver WA USA
Posted 2013-May-08, 00:21
So I've thought about 1C P 1H (2C) dbl being takeout or strong/flexible. I think I would rather it be strong/flexible only....game forcing. The upside to this is that responder doesn't have to jump to force because a game force has been established. It might give up a penalty when opener has a light takeout double of the 2C bid...but then doesn't he have spade support or a red suit to bid? So dbl as game forcing is consistent with opener's prior opening which promised 16+ hcps. Now opener promises 20 or so.
When it goes 1C P 1H (2C) P P now dbl needs to be takeout. This is consistent with patterning out...which responder has already started to do. Also, opener has already opted not to create a game force (it is possible he has a penalty double of 2C) so opener doesn't need to worry about forcing as much. He can bid minimally (2H for example) or invite (3H) after a reopening double.
When the opponents steal the relay bid, it's just easier to double as "you stole my asking bid". Occasionally responder may pass for penalties, but if not, we're in relay mode and using familiar steps. If RHO happens to steal opener's suit or if opener would rather not take the bid, he simply passes.
So one question I've had is whether to use Rubensohl or not. It's a rather nice feature when RHO has bid 2S and a bit redundant when he has overcalled 2C. I think for simplicity to keep it in both instances. One attractive feature of Rubensohl is putting RHO on lead. Another is that it handles reverser hands (lower ranking suit is longer) nicely in concert with doubling first when holding a longer higher ranking suit). I think a natural 2N by opener would primarily be useful if it were game forcing, too.
In the case of 1C P 1H (1S) double as the relay ask is easy to remember and lets us pass it out when neither opener or responder want the bid. Not sure what useful meaning 1C P 1H (1S) P P dbl has except business. They are bidding our suit and responder can't have takeout shape. Probably it should be a suggestion for penalty and opener can take out with shortness. Anyway, now we have systems on after 1C P 1H (1S) with the expectation that opener's 1N rebid suggests a stopper or at least partial stopper.
Comments?
When it goes 1C P 1H (2C) P P now dbl needs to be takeout. This is consistent with patterning out...which responder has already started to do. Also, opener has already opted not to create a game force (it is possible he has a penalty double of 2C) so opener doesn't need to worry about forcing as much. He can bid minimally (2H for example) or invite (3H) after a reopening double.
When the opponents steal the relay bid, it's just easier to double as "you stole my asking bid". Occasionally responder may pass for penalties, but if not, we're in relay mode and using familiar steps. If RHO happens to steal opener's suit or if opener would rather not take the bid, he simply passes.
So one question I've had is whether to use Rubensohl or not. It's a rather nice feature when RHO has bid 2S and a bit redundant when he has overcalled 2C. I think for simplicity to keep it in both instances. One attractive feature of Rubensohl is putting RHO on lead. Another is that it handles reverser hands (lower ranking suit is longer) nicely in concert with doubling first when holding a longer higher ranking suit). I think a natural 2N by opener would primarily be useful if it were game forcing, too.
In the case of 1C P 1H (1S) double as the relay ask is easy to remember and lets us pass it out when neither opener or responder want the bid. Not sure what useful meaning 1C P 1H (1S) P P dbl has except business. They are bidding our suit and responder can't have takeout shape. Probably it should be a suggestion for penalty and opener can take out with shortness. Anyway, now we have systems on after 1C P 1H (1S) with the expectation that opener's 1N rebid suggests a stopper or at least partial stopper.
Comments?
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