[Pigge63]

I have recently started to play 5542 with transfer responses to 1cl with my regular partner and need your advice.

One of the great benefits of transfers is that we can respond with a 5c M and a very weak hand (We play 3+hcp but others accept less). We will pass after partners accept/support or 1NT (17-19 bal.). Problems occur when opener is strong and unbalanced (and opp are less likely to bid):

1. Opener bids reverse.

Partner can pass with 3+card support which is ugly. The alternative is to play Lebensol 2NT to sign off in 3cl. This means that we need at least 3cl as responder (and pray that opener does not have a strong Marmic hand so we have will play on the 3-level with a 7 card suit). Furthermore - how will partner with a 20 count know if I have 6 or 3 hcp after 2NT?

2. After 1cl-1d (transfer to hearts)-1sp-?.

Yesterday I had a 4135 20-count and partner was at loss after my 1sp rebid. She passed with 3 hcp, 5h and 3sp, which certainly was ok. (Then opp. balanced and I jumped to 3NT for -3, fairly stupid) If she had bid 1NT (only option with less than 3sp) how will I know if she has 3 or 6hcp?

What is your advice on these two situations and your general take on answering with a weak hand? Are these inevitable problems that are compensated by all the other “good stuff” ?

[paulg]

Although there are some tactical considerations, I think the main reason to respond with a very weak hand is to improve the contract. Your partner did not have a game-forcing hand when he opened and opposite a sub-minimum response he cannot be unhappy if you chose to pass his rebid, even if it is a reverse.

If you elect to use Lebensohl (or the lower of fourth suit and 2NT, which we find is better), then partner should assume that you have a minimum, rather than sub-minimum, hand. I haven't found this to be a major problem and we play a similar style.

[straube]

I'd rather play that reverses are forcing. I don't like to open 2C with x AKQxx x AKJxxx. I understand when doing so that if partner shows spades he may easily have a hand that doesn't mesh with mine. For this hand, I mostly want trump help...and secondarily aces. So Kxxxx xxx xx xxx and KQxxx xxx KQ xxx are the same difference. Let me show my pattern and then strength before dropping me somewhere.

[FrancesHinden]

We play this style and generally opener bids on the assumption that responder has "normal" responding values. Responder is allowed to jump ship (pass a theoretically forcing bid) if the auction doesn't seem to be going very well. It sounds horribly ill disciplined but in fact responder hasn't passed yet that I can remember and although we've got too high on occasion, that's been on hands when everyone else is getting too high as well.

[Pigge63]

Thanks all for your thoughts. So no specific system change or planning on what kind of hand needed to respond with a sub-minimum hand then? What is your minimum by the way for responsing - 0 hcp? One suggestion is to play 1cl-1d-1sp-2cl as subminimum without 3sp, where partner with "just" a minimum will bid 1NT. After reverse it is more difficult to do the same with a 3cl response.

[FrancesHinden]

Depends on shape. I would pass 1 club with a 3433/3334 0-count, but would bid with a 4531 0-count
Opener generally assumes responder has normal responding values, although he does need a seriously good hand to game force (better than usual).
On your sample hand, you bid 1cl - 1d - 1s and responder passed, and you were in the best contract. The system doesn't seem to have given you a problem here.
Things can get a bit uncomfortable after a reverse, you just have to live with getting too high in 3m sometimes as compensation for all the good things that happen. As responder, in theory I might pass partner's reverse, but it's not systemic. If I responded 1H to 1C with J109xx xxx xxxx x and partner reversed into 2H, I'd pass without a qualm. It's a matter of percentages: how likely is it partner has a hand that wants to play in game opposite this? Obviously it's possible (KQx AKxx x AKQxx) but it's odds against. (this is helped by our system in that partner has another way of showing a game forcing single-suiter, so he won't be inventing a 2H bid on a 2317 huge hand)

[Pigge63]

Thanks! How do you force to game with a singlesuiter?

[FrancesHinden]

By playing the 1NT rebid as strong, you have freed up the 2NT rebid as artificial. There are lots of different ways you can use this, we've gone for a fairly simple one:
1C - 1red - 2NT = various raises of partner's suit (18-19 balanced with 4 trumps / game forcing with no shortage / void splinter / 3-level raise with a singleton / good 6511)
1C - 1red - 3D = game forcing with clubs (3M natural, 3NT to play, 4C agrees clubs, 4D keycard for clubs)

We also play 1C - 1D - 2S as artificial (FG blacks / 3-6 invite / spade mini-splinter) but this isn't compulsory

p.s. we don't usually respond 1S to 1C (showing diamonds in our methods) on nothing. It's only the red suit responses where partner can complete at the 1-level/bid 1NT.

[Pigge63]

 FrancesHinden, on 2013-April-21, 06:51, said:

By playing the 1NT rebid as strong, you have freed up the 2NT rebid as artificial. There are lots of different ways you can use this, we've gone for a fairly simple one:
1C - 1red - 2NT = various raises of partner's suit (18-19 balanced with 4 trumps / game forcing with no shortage / void splinter / 3-level raise with a singleton / good 6511)
1C - 1red - 3D = game forcing with clubs (3M natural, 3NT to play, 4C agrees clubs, 4D keycard for clubs)

We also play 1C - 1D - 2S as artificial (FG blacks / 3-6 invite / spade mini-splinter) but this isn't compulsory

p.s. we don't usually respond 1S to 1C (showing diamonds in our methods) on nothing. It's only the red suit responses where partner can complete at the 1-level/bid 1NT.

[Pigge63]

We have decided not to add more articifical bids as we just got started. We use 2NT as simply 4-card support and strong (after 1d-1M as well which is really neat) but may add more to that later. The handtypes are not common but important when searching for slam. Do you have system-notes I will kindly receive them at hasselgren.johan@gmail.com. Or if you can post continuations after 2NT here. Do you include bids that show a sub-minimum hand - 3h instead of relay 3cl?

[fromageGB]

We have an agreement that responder will transfer to a major on a 4 count with a 5 card suit, but I have not been tempted to lower that. While it can work in some cases, it can prove problematic. Not only when partner has a strong hand and reverses, or bids such as Frances's 3♦, but also when he has a 6 card club suit and rebids 3♣. If you have a useless 2 count you are now expecting near zero matchpoints and cannot recover.

Having said that,
1) when opener reverses, pass if you can. If I am sub-minimum, my partner will probably not have a game hand, opening 1♣. If you bid again, even by giving preference to clubs, you are probably on a zero if partner continues.
2) after 1♣ 1♦! 1♠(natural and presumably denying 3 card support?) you have the safety of a little more room, so as well as pass, 2♣ may be an option, praying he will pass. I would not rebid 1NT. This is as you suggested in your second post, but surely 2♣ cannot be exclusively sub-minimum, as what else would you rebid with an 8 count 2524 shape, for example?
3) after your 1NT(17-19 bal) I would transfer to the major, rather than passing. We do play 1NT=17/18, and have stayman and transfers after this. A 5-2 fit works well when the 5 card suit is dummy.

[Pigge63]

Thanks for your comment! I agree with you on points 1 and 3 – pass a reverse if possible and transfer to major and pass with a weak hand opposite a 1NT-bid - but remain undecided on no 2.

Certainly 2cl after 1cl-1d!-1sp would be the natural bid with the hand you gave. But: we have been allowed to bid undisturbed which is a strong indication that partner is strong. If we bid 1NT with our 8 count 2524 (with the agreement that it does not promise an even hand nor the unbid suit) the risk that we will be left in 1NT and down a few seems remote. We have plenty of space to investigate possible games and weather we have diamonds covered. At least at IMPs (my preferred dish) the difference between 2cl and 1NT is furthermore not that big. At matchpoints improving the contract to 2cl and pray that partner does not jump to 3NT with for instance 20 hcp and KQx in diamonds seems more justified.

I also consider the idea to do the same after openers reverse when pass is not an option. 2NT would mean any weak hand (we do not play Lebensol) and 3cl shows a subminimal hand with some kind of club-support. It would certainly be simple and analogous with how we deal with things a level lower. Can it be the lesser evil?

If a transfer to a major on the one level promises 4hcp and a 5-card suit problems are less and you may (at IMPs at least) go along with partners forcing bids – sometimes the game makes so no problem. If you allow for instance 2-counts it becomes more difficult. Need to think more about this.

[jallerton]

 Pigge63, on 2013-April-21, 10:45, said:

We have decided not to add more articifical bids as we just got started. We use 2NT as simply 4-card support and strong (after 1d-1M as well which is really neat) but may add more to that later. The handtypes are not common but important when searching for slam. Do you have system-notes I will kindly receive them at hasselgren.johan@gmail.com. Or if you can post continuations after 2NT here. Do you include bids that show a sub-minimum hand - 3h instead of relay 3cl?

Over 2NT shows a strong 4-card raise, Responder's rebids are:

3♣ game forcing relay, asking about shape/strength. [You can devise Opener's rebids according to taste/memory, but I'd suggest playing 3 of the agreed major as the strong balanced hand. This is the most common hand type and one where you'd most like Opener to be declarer without having to worry about retransfers later.]
3♦ shows a weak hand, retransfer to 3M. Opener can break to 4M on a very strong hand. If, exceptionally, Opener can still envisage slam opposite a subminimum response, she can make some other bid as a slam try. After 1♣-1♥-2NT, you can use 3♥ instead of 3♦ to show this hand type if you prefer.
3NT = Natural! Suggesting this contract opposite the strong balanced hand. {The advantage of playing 3NT as natural here is that we can agree that all other 3NT bids after the 1♣-1♦/♥-2NT rebid are conventional.)
Others = slam tries, showing Responder's own shape. [You can agree to show shortages and/or side suits, according to taste.]

 fromageGB, on 2013-April-22, 03:40, said:

We have an agreement that responder will transfer to a major on a 4 count with a 5 card suit, but I have not been tempted to lower that. While it can work in some cases, it can prove problematic. Not only when partner has a strong hand and reverses, or bids such as Frances's 3♦, but also when he has a 6 card club suit and rebids 3♣. If you have a useless 2 count you are now expecting near zero matchpoints and cannot recover.

You won't necessarily get a bad matchpoint score. At other tables, 4th hand will often protect and push you up to 3♣ anyway. Sometimes, responding light will stop them finding their making 3-level contract.

[Pigge63]

Thanks for your structure after 2NT. We have made is simple and just play our regular Jacoby answers - 3cl min (3d can ask "is it really that bad", 3M says "yes), 3 bid M is GF without singelton and other bids are gf with singelton. Will consider changing to your structure eventually.