[mdietz39]

Our local club has three stratified games daily, 199's, 0 - 2,000, and 0 to unlimited. We are currently in the 199's with very few points. The environment in that room is noisy and mildly chaotic. When we have asked some of the regulars why they do not go into the "Big Room" they say the players in there are not friendly. We take that to mean they want to have a social experience while playing bridge, conversations, gossip, etc.

We are currently earning some points and so our ability has improved. I decided to see if there was some way I could determine if we could at least not make a fool of ourselves by going into the middle group, 0 - 2,000, where the lowest strata is 0 - 300 points. We are not even close to that level of points. They use the same boards in all three groups so I can compare our playing to those in the big rooms. Here is what I do.

I compare our scores with those of the top A, B, and C strata players in each of the two "big" sections. It is as if there is a seven table game. I do compute the match points for the session(s) and compare our percentages to those from the big sections. It appears we are able to compete with the C strata and occasionaly with the B strata. Often we would be the top or at least 2nd in the strata.

My question is this a reasonable way to determine if we can play at the higher level of expertise?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Mike

[Stephen Tu]

The only way to really see if you are competitive is to play in the tougher games. If you are taking your scores and matchpointing them vs. the other sections, it's not really comparable because your opponents aren't the same level. Did you score max tricks on a board because you really took the best line, or did the opponents hand you a trick? Did you make a mistake and the opps gave it back to you? Sometimes hard to see when you aren't that good yet. When you are a better player kibitzing intermediate and lower players, it is often a comedy of errors, one side hands over a trick, other side gives it back, score ends up looking "normal". Also in the limited game you may have more of a free run to your final contract, while in the tougher game you may have had to still find the contract after aggressive preemption.

That said, if you want to get better the fastest, play the unlimited game. Don't get discouraged by the inevitable low scores at the beginning. Mistakes become more obvious when they are punished. If there is a group of players that go out after the game to eat/drink/discuss hands, join them, you should find plenty of experienced players welcoming to ambitious newbies. Find out what they did on boards you had trouble on, they will advise you on where you went wrong. (But make sure their advice is logical, many experienced players aren't really experts so they will sometimes give you wrong advice or not explain all reasonable alternative approaches. Take it under advisement, not as gospel, until you can work it out for yourself whether they are right or not, compare their advice to books, stuff on this forum, etc.)

As for the "not friendly" thing, that's individual person dependent, in any group there's going to be a range of friendliness and tolerance toward newbies. You can minimize conflict by familiarizing yourself a bit with the rules of the game, and don't get too worked up & defensive if a director gets called.
Avoid things beginners (and many experienced players who should know better!) sometimes do like:
- not making up your mind before reaching for the bid box, resulting in fiddling around with different calls, thinking some more pulling back the hand, then finally going back to the box and choosing a bid. Take your time, decide, then reach.
- not pausing after skip bids (if RHO jumps the bidding, with or without using the stop card, you are supposed to wait 10 seconds before bidding, and not reveal by your mannerism whether you have a tough call or easy pass/bid)
- not leading face down (avoids leading out of turn)

Learn a bit about alert procedure and your responsibilities when you have "unauthorized information", from either partner breaking tempo, or misexplaining one of your conventions. Mainly the idea is to continue to bid/play as if you did not have UI, i.e. figure out what choices you would be thinking of imagining partner had bid in tempo, or had given the correct information. Then pick one that is not "suggested by the UI".

[GreenMan]

There's really only one way to find out: Go out there and play with the big boys, or at least the medium-size boys. It sounds as if you're looking for experience and good competition more than a social outing, which means you'll probably find the tougher games more to your liking than the other 199ers you've talked to.

And us slightly more experienced players are always glad to see newer players taking the plunge, partly because the more the merrier, and partly because we think we'll get a couple of good boards off you. Naturally this doesn't always happen.

If you're bidding most of the games you should be bidding and taking most of the tricks you should be taking, you won't be embarrassed. Everyone in the open room knows what it's like to finish last, so it's no big deal if it takes you a while to get your feet under you. But it sounds as if you'll do fine.

[Phil]

Many of our 99/199ers have found when they move up to the big game is that they can get better points just by doing well in the "C" strat.

Its the best way to improve for sure, and it will be your pool of potential new partners when you do.

[Cthulhu D]

Phil, on 2013-April-18, 20:57, said:

Many of our 99/199ers have found when they move up to the big game is that they can get better points just by doing well in the "C" strat.

Its the best way to improve for sure, and it will be your pool of potential new partners when you do.

I think you improve the most by playing in the toughest game you're not just getting hammered in. Try out the B strata and see how you do. Step down to the lowest strata you are eligable for when playing in a big event/tournament where winning matters more imho.

[barmar]

Cthulhu D, on 2013-April-20, 06:36, said:

I think you improve the most by playing in the toughest game you're not just getting hammered in. Try out the B strata and see how you do. Step down to the lowest strata you are eligable for when playing in a big event/tournament where winning matters more imho.

At the last NABC, I was playing a few days with a woman who had just recently made Life Master. When I suggested that we play in the Silodor Open Pairs, she asked how I decide what to play in. I told her "Before you make LM, you're trying to collect masterpoints, so you play in bracketed KOs. After that, you're playing for good experience, you play in the main events."

Of course we didn't do well, but it wasn't a total embarassment and I think she learned a lot.

[jeffford76]

barmar, on 2013-April-20, 09:33, said:

At the last NABC, I was playing a few days with a woman who had just recently made Life Master. When I suggested that we play in the Silodor Open Pairs, she asked how I decide what to play in. I told her "Before you make LM, you're trying to collect masterpoints, so you play in bracketed KOs. After that, you're playing for good experience, you play in the main events."

Of course we didn't do well, but it wasn't a total embarassment and I think she learned a lot.

I completely agree with this. I have some friends that played in national events for the first time in St. Louis, and while they didn't make it past the first day of anything, they were very clear they were happy to have made the leap. They were also delighted to get the small amount of platinum that winning a couple matches in the national Swiss gave them.

[GreenMan]

jeffford76, on 2013-April-22, 10:31, said:

I completely agree with this. I have some friends that played in national events for the first time in St. Louis, and while they didn't make it past the first day of anything, they were very clear they were happy to have made the leap. They were also delighted to get the small amount of platinum that winning a couple matches in the national Swiss gave them.

Exactly my experience. Our teammates at the national Swiss went from "Isn't that just for real good players?" to "Hey, this is fun!" in just the first few boards.

[barmar]

GreenMan, on 2013-April-22, 13:06, said:

Exactly my experience. Our teammates at the national Swiss went from "Isn't that just for real good players?" to "Hey, this is fun!" in just the first few boards.

But there's a limit. A few years back we entered a team with two novices and two decent flight B players. We got blitzed in the first 4 rounds. I think this may have been when I first met Adam Kaplan; he was still a kid, and I think his team (he was still playing with his dad at the time) was the first that didn't blitz us (but we still lost).

[billw55]

Phil, on 2013-April-18, 20:57, said:

Many of our 99/199ers have found when they move up to the big game is that they can get better points just by doing well in the "C" strat.

Its the best way to improve for sure, and it will be your pool of potential new partners when you do.

Agree. IMO if your goal is to become a good bridge player, you should leave the 199/NLM/etc games behind absolutely as soon as possible. I bet a mint you won't regret once playing the middle section, or even the top section if you so choose.

By the way, I envy you that you have so many games available! You must live in a big city with a thriving player base.

[P_Marlowe]

Comparing the scores will help you to see,
if you would also have reached the sensible
contracts, the better players have rached.

The works for bords, without lots of bidding.
If you feel most of the time, you would (or should
have reached the same contract), be assured, they
are not better, move in and have fun.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ggwhiz]

We had such a weeekly game when I started, unnoficially stratified in that all the sharks played in section A.

Any guppie (like me) with ambition showed up early to reserve a seat there and there was always a post-mortem at a nearby sports bar. Best thing that ever happened for my game cause there's nothing a bridge player loves to share more than their opinion.

If you don't have such a post-mortem try to start one by telling the opps you are going to wherever after the game and watch your learning curve shrink. If you just started out with other ambitious guppies you end up offering a pulpit to some pretty big bridge egos. They even started playing with us on occasion.

A plus for us was that we were so good for business on an otherwise slow night that the management regularly dropped some free pitchers on our table(s) and THAT will draw a crowd too.

[Mbodell]

barmar, on 2013-April-23, 08:35, said:

But there's a limit. A few years back we entered a team with two novices and two decent flight B players. We got blitzed in the first 4 rounds. I think this may have been when I first met Adam Kaplan; he was still a kid, and I think his team (he was still playing with his dad at the time) was the first that didn't blitz us (but we still lost).

Not sure about there being a limit. My first national Swiss was on a team of 4 nlm and we went 1-6-1 for our, IIRC, 0.795 [rounded up to 0.80] platinum points. It was still fun. In the third round we got to play against Dr. Rosenkranz's team, and our team mates loved that. By the end we had found our level even if it was with the other 2 or 3 worst teams in the field.

[Trinidad]

I learned bridge in the ACBL. I think my partner and I had less than 5 masterpoints (combined!) when the TD at the 199er session told us: Go and play with the big fish, it will be a lot more fun.

We were terrified and had never even thought of playing at a higher level. But we decided to give it a go. We never went back and are for ever in debt to that TD (Brooks Hughes of Ann Arbor, MI: thanks for the wonderful advice and all the fun we've had).

Rik

[barmar]

Ahh, Brooks!

I only knew him from the NABCs, where he used to run the midnight games. They haven't been the same since he retired (and has since passed on).

[jeffford76]

Mbodell, on 2013-April-26, 03:24, said:

Not sure about there being a limit. My first national Swiss was on a team of 4 nlm and we went 1-6-1 for our, IIRC, 0.795 [rounded up to 0.80] platinum points. It was still fun. In the third round we got to play against Dr. Rosenkranz's team, and our team mates loved that. By the end we had found our level even if it was with the other 2 or 3 worst teams in the field.

Funny - I was also 1-6-1 my first national Swiss with the tie in round 7 and the win in round 8. We were pretty happy at that point to have finally found our level.

[ggwhiz]

I am sure about there being a limit..... NOT!

I once entered the Vanderbilt as the #106 seed out of 108, survived to play 32 the next day against Lea Dupont and Garozzo and the next 32 against Garozzo and Belladona! shortly before he passed on. They were so kind and gentle a big pile of class fell on the floor whenever they shrugged their shoulders. Masterpoints, nice. Memories like this, priceless.

I'll never forget being dummy in the 1st half, offering to go for a coffee round and seeing Lea dive into her purse for their share and I said not to worry about it as we would be playing all day. Next half we allowed her to kibitz her own team on request (like duh!) and when Benito was dummy she played it and sent him on a coffee run just like any other plebe.