Overcalling over a strong 2C
#1
Posted 2013-April-15, 17:22
#2
Posted 2013-April-15, 18:17
There is a risk, but it's less than I guessed before I got active, and from the opening side's POV, 2c is already a very preemptive opening with no shape info given at all; if they have to start describing at the 3 level or higher, you have created a variance that I find beneficial far more often than not. Obviously, YMMV. Know thyself (and thy partner and teammates), and act accordingly.
#3
Posted 2013-April-16, 04:00
#4
Posted 2013-April-16, 04:49
5/4 with xx, KJxx,xx, QJ9xx, will do to.
Of course vulnerability matters and how much space I can take away.
In team games versus good opponents, I try to know their system. Something like: double negative, pass game forcing (or vice versa) is quite often seen here and makes it easier to intervene.
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#5
Posted 2013-April-16, 07:02
♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74
Would you overcall (presumably with a natural 2♠) with this hand at any scoring/vulnerability? Or is it, perhaps, too defensively oriented to risk a large penalty, especially vulnerable, when you might have hopes of the opponents getting too high and your beating them?
#7
Posted 2013-April-16, 08:26
EricK, on 2013-April-16, 07:02, said:
♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74
Would you overcall (presumably with a natural 2♠) with this hand at any scoring/vulnerability? Or is it, perhaps, too defensively oriented to risk a large penalty, especially vulnerable, when you might have hopes of the opponents getting too high and your beating them?
I would bid 2♠ even with 8 HCPs in this case, definitely, hoping partner has support in ♠s. If he has 0 HCPs and 5 ♠s, he can advance to 4♠.
#8
Posted 2013-April-16, 08:53
EricK, on 2013-April-16, 07:02, said:
♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74
Would you overcall (presumably with a natural 2♠) with this hand at any scoring/vulnerability? Or is it, perhaps, too defensively oriented to risk a large penalty, especially vulnerable, when you might have hopes of the opponents getting too high and your beating them?
I would at MPs if NV.
At IMPs, probably only NV/V.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#9
Posted 2013-April-16, 09:05
I'd consider bidding at favourable at mps, but only against weak opps. Good opps not only handle low-level interference fairly well in the auction, but tend to use our bidding to help them in the play. At imps, I don't see a lot of upside, due to the fact that we have sufficent values that they may be going down in whatever they bid, especially if I don't clue them in. In addition, partner may take a dive, thinking we have a purer offensive hand/less defence.
#10
Posted 2013-April-16, 09:43
More generally, I have conflicting thoughts.
In my experience, most average partnerships are clueless on (a) when to open 2C and (b) how to develop the auction thereafter.
If that assessment is correct, the marginal utility in bidding just to stir it is diminished; there are fairly high odds that the opponents are about to foul it up without my assistance, so putting my head in the noose is just giving them another winning option.
Against expert players, or advanced regular partnerships, there may be more of a case for stirring it. Not sure if you should be as silly as we do over a strong 1C, mind.
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Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
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#11
Posted 2013-April-16, 10:51
mikeh, on 2013-April-16, 09:05, said:
I'd consider bidding at favourable at mps, but only against weak opps. Good opps not only handle low-level interference fairly well in the auction, but tend to use our bidding to help them in the play. At imps, I don't see a lot of upside, due to the fact that we have sufficent values that they may be going down in whatever they bid, especially if I don't clue them in. In addition, partner may take a dive, thinking we have a purer offensive hand/less defence.
I think you overestimate the possibility that partner is going to hang you and underestimate the effects of interference. Even if partner expects a pure hand, 4♠ is probably a 500/800 position against their vul. game.
Even good opponents would rather have a nice smooth Kokish sequence, or a practiced auction that occurs after a 2N rebid instead of something like (2♣) - 2♠ - (p) - 3♠.
As far as helping them in the play, surely we are leading a spade against 3N, so I'm not clear how our overcall matters, except to help partner defend, and maybe get him off to the best lead. Against a suit contract, I might get an extra heart trick because I overcalled that I wasn't getting before.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#12
Posted 2013-April-17, 08:00
To make this not true, you need to overcall with 2♠ not just on ♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74, but also on ♠T9632 ♥J3 ♦7643 ♣74. Do you? Even then the spade length may be a clue to their play, so mingle it with ♠9632 ♥J73 ♦743 ♣742. Now you will not be helping them. However, a few calls to the director and you are likely to be hauled in for psyching.
#13
Posted 2013-April-17, 08:08
EricK, on 2013-April-16, 07:02, said:
♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74
Would you overcall (presumably with a natural 2♠) with this hand at any scoring/vulnerability? Or is it, perhaps, too defensively oriented to risk a large penalty, especially vulnerable, when you might have hopes of the opponents getting too high and your beating them?
Never with any vulnerability or any form of the game.
Want a pattern with a singleton. Want points
to be in the long suits.
They have a better chance of getting too high if
you are silent. Also they wont know to play you
for all the cards.
#14
Posted 2013-April-19, 21:58
♠AKJxxx x xxx xxx
I would bid 3♠ after 2♣, especially when my partner has passed
#15
Posted 2013-April-20, 04:05
jogs, on 2013-April-17, 08:08, said:
Want a pattern with a singleton. Want points
to be in the long suits.
They have a better chance of getting too high if
you are silent. Also they wont know to play you
for all the cards.
If you must have a singleton before you overcall, you are making it easier, not harder, for them in the play.
And if you don't need any high cards before you overcall, they won't know to play you for them when you do.
#16
Posted 2013-April-21, 06:23
fromageGB, on 2013-April-17, 08:00, said:
To make this not true, you need to overcall with 2♠ not just on ♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74, but also on ♠T9632 ♥J3 ♦7643 ♣74. Do you? Even then the spade length may be a clue to their play, so mingle it with ♠9632 ♥J73 ♦743 ♣742. Now you will not be helping them. However, a few calls to the director and you are likely to be hauled in for psyching.
FrancesHinden, on 2013-April-20, 04:05, said:
And if you don't need any high cards before you overcall, they won't know to play you for them when you do.
Just how far should we take this ? This is a hand from the TolleQ where muggins went for a large penalty.........At white, pass from partner, 2♣ and you hold ♠J10xxx ♥xxx ♦xxx ♣Qx
#17
Posted 2013-April-21, 06:56
EricK, on 2013-April-16, 07:02, said:
♠KJT92 ♥AJ ♦J983 ♣74
Would you overcall (presumably with a natural 2♠) with this hand at any scoring/vulnerability? Or is it, perhaps, too defensively oriented to risk a large penalty, especially vulnerable, when you might have hopes of the opponents getting too high and your beating them?
I would overcall, except r/w. Maybe questionable when we are vulnerable, but despite all the side strength I really want a spade lead.
#18
Posted 2013-April-21, 09:55
i think you should reserve overcalls for more serious [distributional] hands where you actually want to get raised and play it.
#19
Posted 2013-April-21, 17:31