[HeartA]

After 3 passes, my partner opened 1♣, I responded 1♠. Partner with ♠-, ♥Axx, ♦KJxx, ♣AKxxxx, reversed 2♦. I bid 3♥.

I have two questions:
1) What does 3♥ mean?
2) How to proceed after 3♥?

[Mbodell]

HeartA, on 2013-April-01, 01:14, said:

After 3 passes, my partner opened 1♣, I responded 1♠. Partner with ♠-, ♥Axx, ♦KJxx, ♣AKxxxx, reversed 2♦. I bid 3♥.

I have two questions:
1) What does 3♥ mean?
2) How to proceed after 3♥?

I think 3♥ should be a splinter in support of diamonds.

[wank]

some people play such a jump as natural, weak and at least 55, in which case i suppose you would bid 4 hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

Mbodell, on 2013-April-01, 01:41, said:

I think 3♥ should be a splinter in support of diamonds.

It's this for me too.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

HeartA, on 2013-April-01, 01:14, said:

After 3 passes, my partner opened 1♣, I responded 1♠. Partner with ♠-, ♥Axx, ♦KJxx, ♣AKxxxx, reversed 2♦. I bid 3♥.

I have two questions:
1) What does 3♥ mean?
2) How to proceed after 3♥?

p - 1C
1S - 2D
??
.. 2H! = artificial weakness bid ( Lebensohl or Ingberman )
.. 2S = 5+ cards, some play GF; others forcing 1 round
..2NT = natural, GF
.. 3C = natural, GF
.. 3D = natural, GF
.. 3H = 5/5 ♠/♥, GF

After :
3H - 4H

[HeartA]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-April-01, 07:06, said:

p - 1C
1S - 2D
??
.. 2H! = artificial weakness bid ( Lebensohl or Ingberman )
.. 2S = 5+ cards, some play GF; others forcing 1 round
..2NT = natural, GF
.. 3C = natural, GF
.. 3D = natural, GF
.. 3H = 5/5 ♠/♥, GF

After :
3H - 4H

With Disagreement on 3♥ bid, I don't see any reasoning for using your convention here. 2♥ (4th suit) is still forcing (even in your convention here) because a passed hand can have hcp up to 12, especially facing a cansual partner. Besides, I don't believe 2NT/3♣/3♦ is forcing. I take 2NT as invitational, 3♣/3♦ is forced to choose a minor.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

See A Primer on Reverse Bidding ( by mikeh ) in the Intermediate and Advanced Bridge discussion ... posts # 55 and # 56 :

http://www.bridgebas...ng/page__st__40

[HeartA]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-April-01, 11:16, said:

See A Primer on Reverse Bidding ( by mikeh ) in the Intermediate and Advanced Bridge discussion ... posts # 55 and # 56 :

http://www.bridgebas...ng/page__st__40

Thanks for response. There are two issues here.
1) The conventions here you post need to be discussed between partners. I post this example for cansual partnership with basic 2/1. So the question here is, withour discuss, what interpretation of 3♥ is more reasonable?

2) I don't like this convention, for reasons I mentioned in the previous post. I think 2M/3m as sign-off is good enough.

[PhilKing]

Question 1: I think it means one has taken leave of one's senses.

If it is agreed what 3♥ means, the question is redundant. But if it is undiscussed, we are not safe to be released into the general community.

Question 2: With extreme caution and a tranquiliser gun.

[kenberg]

Edit: Once again I find that I type more slowly than Phil. Or I am just more wordy.

Playing with a casual partner, I'll look at it from both sides.
I. Holding the weak hand, I would never bid 3♥. Whatever it should mean, there is no reason to think that partner will figure out what I do mean. In particular, if I held a minority view on what the sign-off sequences are and I had not discussed this with my casual partner, I would not expect him to intuit that I hold these views and then be able to reason from there to figure out my intentions with 3♥. But anyway, I just wouldn't do it.
II. Holding the strong hand, if partner bids 3♥ I bid 4♥. If 3♥ was a splinter he will be delighted to hear that I have the ace of hearts. If he has hearts, he will be delighted to hear I have heart support. Playing an unfamiliar sequence with a pick up I am always happy to find that we are not playing at the 4 level in a 3-1 fit.

[HeartA]

PhilKing, on 2013-April-01, 17:24, said:

Question 1: I think it means one has taken leave of one's senses.

If it is agreed what 3♥ means, the question is redundant. But if it is undiscussed, we are not safe to be released into the general community.

Question 2: With extreme caution and a tranquiliser gun.

Maybe this should be in a poll. But anyway, which interpretation is more reasonable? Splinter or real suit (natural)?

[PhilKing]

HeartA, on 2013-April-01, 17:48, said:

Maybe this should be in a poll. But anyway, which interpretation is more reasonable? Splinter or real suit (natural)?

Both are entirely reasonable. I prefer 55+ inv but I guess the majority would prefer splinter. Neither are particularly likely or necessary.

But as Ken says, just bid 4♥ and see.

[kenberg]

but then perhaps, if 3♥ was a splinter, 4♥ by me noe is kickback rkc. Oh well. I've been in weird contracts before.

This hand was posted on the Natural Bidding Forum. I guess that's a hint.

There have been times when opponents have asked for an explanation of my partner's bidding and the only true answer is "Beats the hell out of me". This may be one of those times.

[HeartA]

This hand didn't cause a disaster. My hand is ♠A109xx,♥J,♦Q10xxx,♣xx. The bidding went:
1♣-1♠-2♦-3♥-4♥-5♦.

A slam is missed. After this board is finished, we had a dispute about the meaning of 3♥.

[kenberg]

It's an interesting hand, at least for me. If partner understood the splinter, would you have reached 6? If you had bid 3♦ instead of 3♥ would you have reached 6? I suppose the first though about how to play 6 is to draw trump and set up clubs with a third round ruff. Having nine trump improves the chance of success but it's hard to communicate this to partner. Playing a slam missing the ace of trumps can be tricky.

Anyway, I like the hand. And I still don't have a strong opinion about what 3♥ should be.

Edit, following up on my earlier kickback concern: I have a partner who likes kickback. So far I have declined, and this hand might be my exhibit A. If 3♥ is understood as a splinter, then 4♥ is kickback, right? So the bid over 4♥ is not 5♦, it is either 4♠ or 4NT, depending on the version. After which God only knows what he makes of that, because he thinks that 4♥ raised hearts. If the bid over 4♥ is 4♠, he probably treats that as kickback with hearts as trump.
I'm sure kickback is a great convention for those who never have misunderstandings. I am not one of those people

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I admit, the 3H-jump could be an "agreed" splinter for ♦ .
It would be a rarity, but so would a 5s/5h hand.

The only other possible splinter sequence for a 2D reverse would be:
1C - 1H
2D - 3S!

[lowerline]

4th suit with a jump is natural and invitational to me. I see no reason to play it differently in this situation.

Steven

[HeartA]

lowerline, on 2013-April-03, 01:47, said:

4th suit with a jump is natural and invitational to me. I see no reason to play it differently in this situation.

Steven

For me, any unnecessary jump is splinter. After partner shows 2 minors, I don't see the reason to jump to 4th suit as natural.

[billw55]

Splinter might be the best use of the call, but undiscussed with a BBO random partner, is asking for trouble. With a live partner, only you can judge.

[lowerline]

HeartA, on 2013-April-03, 10:42, said:

For me, any unnecessary jump is splinter. After partner shows 2 minors, I don't see the reason to jump to 4th suit as natural.

I would never assume '4th suit with a jump' to be a Splinter without prior agreement... I would have bid a forcing 3♦ with your hand.
Besides, this is not an unnecessary jump because 2♥ would not have been natural (4SF). 3♥ is the only way to bid hearts naturally and to discover a possible 5-3 heart fit. 4♥ is the unnecessary jump and is clearly a Splinter.


Steven