Would you open a 4441 holding with 1NT?
#1
Posted 2013-March-26, 01:34
1. It conveys your hand strength
2. It conveys your approximate shape
#2
Posted 2013-March-26, 01:45
If the singleton is in any major,I open 1♦, and then 2♣.
If the singleton is small card,open a minor suit,only.
#3
Posted 2013-March-26, 02:31
#4
Posted 2013-March-26, 04:07
lycier, on 2013-March-26, 01:45, said:
helene_t, on 2013-March-26, 02:31, said:
Both of you seem to be putting emphasis on the fact that the singleton needs to be an Ace or a King. Lycier went a step further and includes "any minor suit." What is the reasoning behind this rigidity? A crappy singleton is surely no worse than a crappy doubleton?
#5
Posted 2013-March-26, 04:09
George Carlin
#6
Posted 2013-March-26, 07:04
Having said that, never.
#7
Posted 2013-March-26, 08:28
- hrothgar
#8
Posted 2013-March-26, 08:33
32519, on 2013-March-26, 04:07, said:
If you have a small singleton and 15-17 HCP, your hand is better in support for one of the other three suits than partner should reasonably expect. To me this is the main reason not to open 1NT with a small singleton.
Moreover, if you should be in 3NT then there is a good chance that it should be from partner's side. If your singleton is an honor then it is often better to play it from your side.
Playing 2M in a 5-2 is much better than playing 2M in a 5-1 with a small singleton.
- hrothgar
#9
Posted 2013-March-26, 10:21
han, on 2013-March-26, 08:28, said:
Interesting. I'd be happy to open 1m with a singleton heart, because I can painlessly bid 1m-1♥;1♠. With a singleton club, on the other hand, you face an awkward problem after 1♦-1NT, so with a 15- or 16-count I'd be more inclined to open 1NT.
#10
Posted 2013-March-26, 10:31
As others have implied, having a stiff minor means that opening 1N is a poor decision.
With 4414 or 4441, open the minor and nothing bad can happen. Partner bids a major, and we jump raise.....perfect.
Partner bids 1♦ over our 1♣ and we bid 1♥.
We may reach some 4-4 major fits that we would miss after 1N, when partner is too weak to respond stayman. And we may avoid the problem of partner deciding his 4333 12 count made 3N attractive, and they run the first 5 or 6 tricks in our stiff.
Having a stiff heart is basically the same: we can always rebid 1♠.
1=4=4=4 is the problem hand. We open 1♦ and partner responds 1♠. We can rebid 2♣ but we'd definitely be nervous that we are beginning to stumble about.
Having said that, I'm with those who want an honour in the stiff suit before bidding 1N. Partner will often transfer into that suit, and I want a card that has the playing value of xx. Normally that would be an Ace or a King, but I could see doing it with a Queen, especially if my strongest suit was hearts.....because the alternative of opening one weak 4 card minor and rebidding the other weak 4 card minor induces a feeling of nausea.
#12
Posted 2013-March-26, 11:41
WellSpyder, on 2013-March-26, 11:38, said:
A very reasonable treatment:
You don't have 5+ diamonds, so you bid your 4cM if you have one: 2H. You bid 2D with any hand with 5+ diamonds, even if you do have a 4cM.
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#13
Posted 2013-March-26, 12:25
WellSpyder, on 2013-March-26, 11:38, said:
The sequence 1♦ 2♣ has been described by better theorists than me as a morass or quagmire in standard bidding.
I have had several agreements over time. My personal preference is:
2♦: essentially a waiting bid. It promises no more than 4 diamonds and an inability to make a more descriptive bid
2M: shows shape: at least 4=5 in the Major and diamonds. Doesn't need extras, but will not be a horrible minimum (2♦ for that)
2N: balanced hand, may hold a 4 card major, promises no stiff or void. Doesn't deliver stoppers: when playing a strong 1N, delivers a weak notrump, and vice versa. However, with 5332, should have at least a semi-stopper in both majors, else bid 2♦.
3♣: will almost always deliver 4+ clubs. Will be balanced or either horrible or very good.
3M: splinter, limited to decent to sound openings: really good hands or horrible hands go through 3♣
3N: balanced 18-19, values in all suits, denies 5 diamonds or 4 clubs or a 4 card major, so will be 3343.
Experience suggests that the drawback from lack of certainty as to diamond length for 2♦ is of low significance/frequency, and certainly less than the gain from being able to differentiate other hand shapes and strengths.
After 2♦ or 2N, responder can introduce a 4 card major. If at the 2-level, then opener can raise with 4 card support, and if at the 3-level (over 2N) opener can raise to game or with a 'good' hand in context, cue something beyond 3N. This can cause problems if responder has say xx in the unbid major and opener has no stopper, but given that opener will have at least 3 cards in the suit (else he would have rebid 2♦ on some 5332 with a major unstopped), this isn't a big deal, and 3N will usually make as or more often that any other game anyway.
In answer to the post that prompted this one: with 4441, I would rebid a waiting 2♦.
#14
Posted 2013-March-26, 16:16
With any other singleton I open 1♦ which guarantees a shortage if I don't rebid ♦. Again a splinter is possible, but 1NT if partner bids my singleton major. Partner can find out if I have 12-14 or 15/16.
#15
Posted 2013-March-27, 03:51
To me opening 1NT with a singleton honour in a major is much more attractive than opening 1NT with a singleton in a minor. We'll be less likely to miss a major suit game, and there is more reason to open preemtively.
- hrothgar
#16
Posted 2013-March-27, 10:12
han, on 2013-March-27, 03:51, said:
To me opening 1NT with a singleton honour in a major is much more attractive than opening 1NT with a singleton in a minor. We'll be less likely to miss a major suit game, and there is more reason to open preemtively.
While you are correct that after 1♦on a 4=1=4=4 16 count, I am awkwardly placed after a 1N advance of my 1♠ bid, that is a fairly narrow target, especially since (for me) my 1♠ promised an unbalanced hand. This makes 1N as a 4th bid less likely than for those who bid up the line, and could therefore be 4=2=4=3 or 4=3=4=2.
It is, however, definitely an issue.
Otoh, opening 1N is not exactly a perfect solution either. All kinds of bad things could happen. Partner could commit us to hearts at any level, and be very disappointed to find our stiff. The opps could run hearts on us when we have a minor suit game. We may languish in a bad 1N when we could have been playing a 4-4 spade fit....on a bad day we play 1N while cold for 4♠. And so on.
As with just about every choice of style/method, there are negatives lurking behind one's choices here. Identifying the negatives for the approach espoused by andy and me (and others) doesn't add to the discussion unless you can argue that these negatives are on balance worse than the negatives flowing from a different style.
My own view is as I have described: yours may be very reasonably otherwise: I don't think it is possible to 'prove' anything.
#18
Posted 2013-March-27, 10:35
I see the reasons but those are usually caused by fixable holes in rest of the system. I went through many hands and imo people who regularly open 1NT with stiff (many American pairs, not so many European) hurt themselves by doing this.
As to specific problems:
1D - 1H
1S - 1NT
2C = 16+, any hand here is one good idea played by Lauria Versace for example.
1D - 2C
many ideas here, one is that you just bid 2NT with 12-14 and 4 diamonds; one other was describe by Mikeh. Some others require 2H as multimeaning rebid.
I don't think those problems are especially hard to solve nor frequent comapre to disasters opening 1NT with stiff yield.
#19
Posted 2013-March-27, 11:21
#20
Posted 2013-March-27, 17:03
We indicated that we were going to appeal the procedural penalty, and the directors eventually dismissed it in favor of filling out a recorder form, which I thought to be much more reasonable.