[ahydra]

Both vul at MPs, playing weak NT and 4cM, you're in first chair. You open 1♦ on ♠- ♥AQxx ♦KJxxxx ♣Kxx, partner responds 2♣ and RHO chimes in with 2♠. What's your call?

ahydra

[mike777]

double looks ok at this point.

I hope this shows short spades, nonminimum, no clear direction yet...

[the hog]

3C

[SteveMoe]

3♣
Switch my ♣ with my ♠ and I would double (easier to do if 2♣ is GF).
...

[Codo]

I would double, this sholud be my chance to show the hearts, but I can show clubs later.

[Fluffy]

I don't know 4cM weak NT systems, but I have a perhaps silly metha rule that when pass is forcing double is penalty, so I pass. I am not acepting partner's double.

[Zelandakh]

Why would pass be forcing Gonzo? If it were, I would have expected the OP to include the information.

[Free]

Really quick answer: 3♣.

[PhilKing]

If 2♣ is not GF, I double for takeout.

If 2♣ is GF I play double as penalties, so I would bid 3♣. If lefty bids 4♠ and partner doubles, I bid 4NT. If partner passes, I bid 4NT.

[helene_t]

Pass is nf in this system and even though dbl is not penalty I have too little defense for it.
I consider 3c a slight underside. I make the slight overbid of 3h and remove 3n to 5c

[ggwhiz]

helene_t, on 2013-March-15, 06:49, said:

Pass is nf in this system

I was going to pass and await developments as I can't stand my t/o double to go float either BUT

How can an opening bid opposite any 2/1 response sell out quietly to 2♠? I don't know this system at all but that does not compute.

[gszes]

my hand has improved enormously- and we should have visions of slam
racing through our head. Since it is still possible p has wasted spade values
we should take a go slow approach for now and bid 3h waiting mostly to see
if p can bid 3n or not.

x here seems wrong since we have clear direction for our side via 3n or 5/6/7
of a minor.

3c is ok if playing a 2/1 (100% forcing) but otherwise it sounds far too competitive
vs the monster this hand is becoming.

the other benefit to 3h is that if p cannot bid 3n we will be able to bid a club contract
and show partner our pattern.

3s as a splinter is also ok but it may be better to use that to ask for a spade stop with
a more balanced hand and 4s bypasses 3n which could be our last makeable game.

[cherdano]

I hope all the 3♣ bidders think it is forcing! (Which I assume it isn't for the OP.) I can't stomach the thought of anyone bidding a non-forcing 3♣ with this monster.

[Fluffy]

Zelandakh, on 2013-March-15, 03:44, said:

Why would pass be forcing Gonzo? If it were, I would have expected the OP to include the information.

On the french std/sayc we played before 2/1, 2♣ was forcing to 2NT with some exceptions

[Trinidad]

Fluffy, on 2013-March-16, 01:17, said:

On the french std/sayc we played before 2/1, 2♣ was forcing to 2NT with some exceptions

I agree 100% with that, but this system looks more like Acol where 2♣ doesn't promise as good a hand as in SAYC or French standard.

I think the OP could have mentioned what 2♣ showed.

Rik

[ggwhiz]

Fluffy, on 2013-March-16, 01:17, said:

On the french std/sayc we played before 2/1, 2♣ was forcing to 2NT with some exceptions

I stand by pass then which gives us (pard) an extra descriptive kick at the can. 3♥ in particular is self-pre-empting.

My next bid is probably 3♠ (depending on pards next call) followed by 4♣ and cue bidding from there. I hate stalling in 5 of a minor at mp's if pard bids nt along the way but if there was ever a hand for it this is it.

Mind you if my lho raises to 3♠ my next bid pins the tail on the donkey.... me.

[ahydra]

These replies were interesting, sorry for the delay in replying (I've been moving house over the weekend). Seems to be reasonably fairly split between X and 3C.

At the table this was actually my regular partner with this decision playing against me and I wanted to check he hadn't gone crazy by raising on three cards. He chose 3C and the auction proceeded (3S)-4C-(p); 4H-(X)-p-(p); 5C-(X)-out, down 800 when partner had AJx 8xxx --- QJxxxx. Clearly 2C is an overbid, 4C possibly even more so, with a void in partner's suit.

I guess with a void in spades X is a little risky, but it feels like that's a good way to get the hearts into play. 3C could get us to a 4-3 fit...

ahydra

[helene_t]

ggwhiz, on 2013-March-15, 08:07, said:

How can an opening bid opposite any 2/1 response sell out quietly to 2♠? I don't know this system at all but that does not compute.

One important consequence of playing a weak nt is that opener is going to pass responder's 1NT bid with a balanced 16-count. Therefore responder has to bid at the 2-level with a decent 9-count. It is not forcing to 2NT or so, only to 2♦.

I suppose one could agree to play that we can't defend undoubled after a 2/1 response. It is a bit dangerous since it could easily be best to defend 2♠ undoubled, at least when vulnerable at IMPs. But I am quite sure that it isn't standard among Acol players.

[aguahombre]

Some observations:

1) A really quick question never is.

2) A 2/1 response agreement where defending 2S undoubled might be best makes this situation impossible. The posts by GGwhiz show why, and his choice to pass would have saved the day, this time with this partner.

[mike777]

ahydra, on 2013-March-19, 08:08, said:

These replies were interesting, sorry for the delay in replying (I've been moving house over the weekend). Seems to be reasonably fairly split between X and 3C.

At the table this was actually my regular partner with this decision playing against me and I wanted to check he hadn't gone crazy by raising on three cards. He chose 3C and the auction proceeded (3S)-4C-(p); 4H-(X)-p-(p); 5C-(X)-out, down 800 when partner had AJx 8xxx --- QJxxxx. Clearly 2C is an overbid, 4C possibly even more so, with a void in partner's suit.

I guess with a void in spades X is a little risky, but it feels like that's a good way to get the hearts into play. 3C could get us to a 4-3 fit...

ahydra

Is 2c really the correct call in your style, 1h is not allowed in response to 1d?