[kenberg]

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Getting to 3NT seems worth a try. Do I bid 3♥ or 3♠? Generally I understand that if there are two suits in question we show instead of ask. I could, after all, have a similar strength hand with a control in spades but not in hearts, right? Of course if my spade control were the King, that's not much of a control if partner plays the NT, so maybe I just bid it, but if I have the ace of spades I might be worried about hearts, right?


Anyway. 3♥ or 3♠?

I am a little embarrassed to say what happened here. I chose 3♠, lho doubled, partner bid 3NT, and, in his turn lho doubled again. Now I had to decide whether I had misled partner by my spade bid and he thought I had the stop. I'll spare you the gory details of what happened next.

Partner is a pick up, and a bit on the hyper side, but forget that. What is your agreement within an established partnership?

[mr1303]

3S would definitely ask for a stopper. 3H would show a second suit, and would be my choice, whereas 3S would tell partner to look only at the spades. If partner wants to bid 3NT after 3H I'm happy to put this dummy down. Equally, 5C, 5D or 4H are still in the picture after a 3H bid.

[Codo]

Nothing to add, 3 ♥ is natural and 3 ♠ asks.

[Zelandakh]

A question. Do we actually need a natural 3♥ here? After all, partner could have doubled with 4 hearts. Another question. Was 2♦ forcing? This might have some bearing on what exactly is shown by the 3♣ rebid.

[ArtK78]

Zelandakh, on 2013-March-11, 09:31, said:

A question. Do we actually need a natural 3♥ here? After all, partner could have doubled with 4 hearts.

Do we need 3♥ here as a way to get to find a heart contract? Probably not (unless South is 5-6). But it makes sense to bid 3♥ natural here as a way to get to a sensible final contract.

On the other hand, partner could be 4-6 in the rounded suits and chose not to double.

Whether partner can have 4 hearts on this auction or not, 3♥ seems like the right call.

[Zelandakh]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-11, 09:37, said:

But it makes sense to bid 3♥ natural here as a way to get to a sensible final contract.

By "natural" here, do you mean showing a suit, or showing values? When I was asking if we needed 3♥ as a natural bid, I specifically meant the first of these. If it were to have the second meaning, then it does open up the question of whether 3♠ could be something more specific than a general stopper ask (since most of these would advance 3♥).

Edit: responded before your edit.

[WellSpyder]

kenberg, on 2013-March-11, 08:28, said:

Do I bid 3♥ or 3♠? Generally I understand that if there are two suits in question we show instead of ask.

I think this is a sensible approach if oppo have bid two suits, and is probably "standard". This may be what was at the back of your mind here. But when they have just bid one suit, then bidding it would typically be asking for a stop and bidding the unbid suit would be natural.

[fromageGB]

If you are bidding ♥ to show them, and ♠ to ask for a stop, what you you bid when you have good spades but nothing in hearts?

With my partners, bidding ♥ shows them, inviting NT if partner has ♠, or some other bid if not, and (me) bidding ♠ is initially taken to be showing them, inviting NT if partner has hearts, while bidding NT shows both ♥+♠.

Of course, either major followed by another bid over NT cancels that meaning, and then ♠ would probably be a splinter

[ArtK78]

fromageGB, on 2013-March-11, 10:13, said:

If you are bidding ♥ to show them, and ♠ to ask for a stop, what you you bid when you have good spades but nothing in hearts?

3NT.

And, yes, sometimes they lead a heart and partner also has nothing in hearts. But that is not very often.

[kenberg]

ArtK78, on 2013-March-11, 10:27, said:

3NT.

And, yes, sometimes they lead a heart and partner also has nothing in hearts. But that is not very often.

Yes, all in all, this seems right. It did seem right when I bid 3♠ but I had second thoughts later. But next time I bid 3♥

Thanks.

[BillPatch]

Advancer has 3 tries to sort out stoppers to reach 3NT: bid 3NT, cue 3♠, or reverse to 3♥.
4 possible messages.
1. I have the full ♠ stop. 3NT
2. I have a half stop(K,Qx or Jxx). Lawrence has suggestted that a cue over an overcall suggest this. 3S?
3. I have no stop. 3H?
4. I have a ♥ suit. 3H?
Opener's ♠ rebid reduces the need for message 2. overcaller might have doubled on the second round to suggest
a ♥ suit, reducing the need for message 4.
I vote for 1,2,3 for 3nt, 3S and 3H, respectively. If partner then rebids 3NT after opener passes, I would pass.

After opener doubles 3♠, overcaller can accept 3NT in 3 ways.
1. bid 3nt
2. pass, then accept 3NT
3. RD, then accept
1 would be strongest suggestion for 3NT. 3 weakest?
I would only bid 3NT directly with full stop A Q J 10 XX or better clubs so that
they will run after finesse onside at worst.