[JLOGIC]

Similar to Han's recent thread...

Assume over short club you play a 2C overcall natural, and 3C overcall preemptive. I assume an auction like (1C) p (1H) p (2H) 3C is clearly a double and bid club hand type. What about (1C) p (1H) p (1N) 2C? Could this be more like a weak 2 in clubs that didn't want to overcall 2 or 3, and a double and bid type must jump to 3C? Or is this also too strong to overcall. Does the vul matter? Does your overcalling style matter?

Now, assume over precision diamond you play the treatment that is common in USA (might be common elsewhere I just don't know), that 2D overcall is natural, 2H is NF michaels, and 3D is big michaels. Could (1D) p (1H) p (2H) 3D now just be like a 3D opener? Or is this also a double and bid diamond hand type like 18+ with 6 diamonds? I assume here that (1D) p (1H) p 1N 2D is clearly a preemptive diamond opener, and 3D is strong?

[PhilKing]

I think it should show 6D 5S and good. 2♠ shows 55 or a lesser 56.

[JLOGIC]

Passing and then bidding diamonds should show 5 spades?

[PhilKing]

Either major - but I guess the very strong ♦ overcall may be more logical. I can always bid 2♠ with 5S 5-6D and bid 3♥ with a really strong 5-6. Everything is covered now, I think.

[straube]

With a 5M/6D hand you could just overcall your major and rebid diamonds.

I think I'd want 1D (3D) to be weak. What's 1D (2N)? Hearts and clubs? Maybe it could be that OR big Michaels. Or maybe big Michaels doubles first.

[lalldonn]

I don't think anything is standard but what would I want, let's say for the 3♦ bid? Probably to show the strong hand. I know you couldn't show a preemptive diamond hand directly but you might just have to bid 2♦ on it to begin with. I mean you have to be able to show the good hand somehow. And once you have passed there isn't as much value in show a weak hand with 3♦. You might lose out if partner had a balanced hand with reasonable values and you could just make it, but I don't think there is much you can do about it given the agreements.

Regarding pass then 2♣ I could see that being the weaker hand. That probably makes the most sense. Similar to pass then 2♦. As long as there is still some way to show a strong hand.

Having these bids show any suit along with the one you are bidding makes no sense to me and seems old fashioned. Maybe it's regional or particular to certain countries, I don't know.

[fred]

Maybe a little off topic, but I had what I think was a good idea a couple of months ago...

When they open a Precision 1D, we overcall 1 of a major, and the next hand passes, use 3C as "invitational or better with 6+ diamonds" (a problem hand assuming you play that 2D would be a cuebid that implies a fit for partner's major).

I like to play new suit responses to overcalls as forcing (primitive I know). My idea might not work so well (or at least require some additional thought) if the 2C response to the overcall would be non-forcing and 3C is normally used to force with clubs.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[JLOGIC]

I like it if you play new suits forcing. Given my overcall style I feel like NF is very important though so I can't adopt it haha

[Zelandakh]

After (1♦) - (1♥); (2♥), can we not just double with a strong hand and diamonds? Or the other way round. It is a little tougher if they are bidding and raising spades. We could get around that by having a 2NT advance of a double to show hearts but that has its own problems. If we were to use (1♦) - 2NT for hearts and a minor rather than hearts and clubs then we could possibly free up 2NT (over 2♠) for the strong diamond hands.