[mr1303]

If partner doubles a weak 2, I bid 3NT, regardless of whether I'm playing Lebensohl or not. It wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise.

[quiddity]

Another vote for 3♦ playing leb. I don't like driving to 3NT; if partner has a minimum I expect to go down most of the time, usually by 2+ tricks.

[akwoo]

Opposite a clone of myself, I would go straight to 3N, but a clone of myself won't make a takeout double of 2H in direct seat with that hand.

[kenberg]

akwoo, on 2013-March-08, 19:28, said:

Opposite a clone of myself, I would go straight to 3N, but a clone of myself won't make a takeout double of 2H in direct seat with that hand.

It would be nice to have a third club although we can't have everything
If you interchange a club in East's hand with a heart in South's hand the play will go heart to K, heart back and now declarer is in serious trouble.
Other than the club shortage, the hand is up to par in my book. But then I haven't written a book.

For me, 3NT or 3♦ a close call. I believe I bid 3♦ and presumably I play it there.

This thread has largely gone the way I hoped and expected. Some would go to 3NT, some would not, sort of what I expected, but I wanted to put it out there. And maybe the comments about how to play Leb after 2M-X-Pass will bear some fruit. The main thing on that issue is to not just assume it is played just as it is after a NT opening has been overcalled. As has been noted several times, that just isn't sensible.

[akwoo]

kenberg, on 2013-March-08, 20:55, said:

It would be nice to have a third club although we can't have everything

I'm not sure I'd double even then, though I'd think about it.

I was taught a takeout double of a weak 2 requires more than a takeout double of an opening bid, because you need partner to be able to jump on decent hands. This is less true when playing Lebensohl because partner doesn't need to jump to show an invitational hand, but you still don't want to overburden your invitational range.

It is true that passing with up to a mediocre flat-ish 14 puts more pressure on balancing seat.

[kenberg]

Close decisions all around actually. Myself, I like more of my points to be in my suit for a vulnerable 2♥ opening. And for the South hand I would definitely prefer having three clubs and two hearts instead of three hearts and two clubs, even if they are the Ax. For one thing, if we are playing Leb and I double with Ax in clubs, there is a decent chance that I will be the one stuck with trying to make 3♣.

Anyway, change a small heart in S to a small club and I double, with the actual hand probably not. But it is true that my two cards in hearts would then up the odds of my lho holding two, and then 3NT will not go well at all. Not that this observation would change my mind about waiting for the third club.

[PhilKing]

FM75, on 2013-March-07, 16:23, said:

My partner and I play against weak two's as follows.

Intervener is expected to have opening strength hand, for us 11-15. Advancer's options are:

• With < 9 hcp, signoff with a transfer 2N -> 3♣, 3♣ -> 3♦, etc.
• 9-12, invite by going through 2N (lebensohl)
  
• 13+, Transfer as in 1) but bid on. Game forcing.
  

A fast transfer into opener's major suit is a GF cue bid, showing 4+ cards in the other major, but no stop in opener's suit.
A slow transfer into opener's major suit shows a stop.
A transfer into opener's minor suit shows no interest in a major (would have transferred to the major).
A slow 3NT promises a stop. A fast 3N is pretty much unnecessary - I suppose it could be given some artificial meaning, perhaps some sort of 55?

Bidding this way, intervener has a fairly well defined picture of advancer's strength and can make a reasonable informed decision of prospects for the hand. With some unusual hand, intervener might elect not to complete a transfer. I can't remember that happening, but it is a possibility.

On the hand shown, we have invitational strength, so 2N-3♣-3♦ shows diamond suit and 9-12. With diamonds this weak, and hearts under opener I would also consider just a direct transfer.

Truth in advertising requires one to confess that one now has no method to show an invitational 3♣ response.

[FM75]

PhilKing, on 2013-March-09, 07:33, said:

Truth in advertising requires one to confess that one now has no method to show an invitational 3♣ response.

That is pretty much true, though with a long suit needing just a little help, you can rebid 4♣.

On balance, I think the pluses of the structure out-weigh this negative.

[kenberg]

Something where you and your partner have sorted out the meanings is a good start whether the meanings are optimal or not.

Oops, I was not understanding part of your approach but now I am.


I really do recommend having two ways to bid 3NT, the leave me alone way and the maybe you should pull way. A while back I was playing with a partner with whom I mistakenly thought I had an understanding on this. The auction began 2♠-X-P-3NT which he alerted and, upon request, explained that this showed a spade stopper. After three passes, I supplemented the discussion by saying "I hope to kiss a duck this shows a stopper". I in fact had the AK. But I needed them both to bring in the contract. The originally posted hand is a case in point. As it happens, doubler has three hearts leaving rho with only one, a stiff king fortunately. But suppose partner has only one small heart, a common holding for a double of course. Now the opening lead is a small heart, after which you had better be able to run eight more tricks because no matter who gets in you are going down. My guess would be that if doubler has a stiff heart spot, and presumably then eight cards in the minors, 5m in one m or the other, diamonds given your club holding, has a better shot than 3NT. Neither contract may work, but if, say, you are missing the diamond A you may have eleven tricks after you lose a club and a diamond. It's not at all clear that you will have eight black suit winners after a heart lead rides to your hand.

[Mbodell]

ahydra, on 2013-March-07, 07:59, said:

If I'm playing IMPs I'll just bid 3NT, I think. Playing Leb, you could bid 3D but partner may well pass with a flattish 14.

The way I play it partner can't pass 3♦ when I'm an UPH.

[wyman]

To summarize Justin's method in the case of a cue or 3n:

3n always shows a stopper, and a cuebid always denies (that's with or without relay)

And "slow shows" 4coM. Makes your pickup partnership Leb agreements really easy.

This is what I like to play as well.