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What opening bid?

#1 User is offline   Hilver 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 06:22

You play good old Precision, You hold:
♠ A K 10 9
♥ A 8 6
♦ 10 9 8 (Edited!)
♣ A 8 7

Your 1NT = 13-15 HCP
1NT after opening 1♣ = 16-18 HCP.

Do treat this hand as 13-15 or 16-18?

Thx

Jan
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#2 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 06:26

13-15 I dislike 4333 strong enough to devalue the ups of this hand..
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#3 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 06:28

16-18. I have aces and kings
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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 06:34

You have 14 cards.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 07:13

View Postgwnn, on 2013-February-22, 06:34, said:

You have 14 cards.

That is what makes it worth an upgrade.
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   Hilver 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 10:31

View Postgwnn, on 2013-February-22, 06:34, said:

You have 14 cards.


Thx, You have a diamond less.

Jan
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#7 User is offline   Hilver 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 10:32

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-February-22, 07:13, said:

That is what makes it worth an upgrade.


:rolleyes:

Jan
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#8 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 10:37

I hate 4333 hands a lot - but this one has too many controls and intermediates to not upgrade IMO
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#9 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 10:55

I will open 1NT. Aces and Kings are bad for NT if you don't have a way to develop any tricks, and while the intermediates are nice, you are still 4333 shape.
"It's not enough to win the tricks that belong to you. Try also for some that belong to the opponents."

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#10 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 12:58

I open 1♣ because it has 7 controls and 3 Aces = 16.5 pts but -1 for 4333 and + 0.5 for T9 with AK in spades, thus 16 pts adjusted count.
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#11 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 13:03

1NT for me
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#12 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 13:36

knr=16.85
DK=16+
Bonzai points=14
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#13 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 14:09

View PostHilver, on 2013-February-22, 06:22, said:

Do treat this hand as 13-15 or 16-18?

I really think that the correct answer to this question is YES!

In any event, I open it a 13-15 1NT if that is what I am playing. I would rather treat this hand as the top of my range than the bottom of the 16-18 range.

By the way, I realize that this hand occurred in the context of a Precision system, but the question being asked really does not fall in the category of "Non-natural Systems."
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#14 User is offline   lalldonn 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 14:12

Definitely upgrade. I very rarely upgrade with this shape, but those spot cards and controls are too ridiculously good to ignore. I don't even think this is close.
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
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#15 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2013-February-22, 19:19

Upgrade even 4333.
But I want partner to declare when he has tenaces.
I choose 1D. Expect 1D-1H-1S-1N or 1D-1N.
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#16 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-25, 03:59

View PostArtK78, on 2013-February-22, 14:09, said:

By the way, I realize that this hand occurred in the context of a Precision system, but the question being asked really does not fall in the category of "Non-natural Systems."

Funnily enough, I disagree somewhat with this since original Precision did not advocate too many upgrades or downgrades. In that respect, I would expect the majority of players from that era to have simply opened 1NT. However, I think this hand is definitely worth 16. In other words, it depends on your mentality for upgrading and downgrading. As long as Responder is going to downgrade their quacks properly, then I think upgrading this hand is fine. If not, then I think opening 1NT is also ok. With the more modern style of a lot of upgrading, 1♣ would seem to be clear. But the (original) Precision context makes it likely that this is not the case - that is what might well make it relevant.
(-: Zel :-)
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