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这是支持性加倍吗?

#1 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-February-01, 20:32

 MarilynLi, on 2013-January-31, 09:49, said:

the bidding goes:

1-1-1-2
dbl

playing negative dbl, the 1S bid is known for 5 cards. do you think opener's dbl is a support dbl?

I always thought support dbl was made when responder could have 4 or 5 card. But I am told the dbl here is support showing 3 cards and a rebid of 2 showing 4 card.

if responder is known for 5 card , why not play 2 rebid by opener for 3 card support, 3 rebid for 4 card support(LOTT) and leave the dbl for penalty?

What is your thought?


本题面来自中高级论坛,贴主认为:永远认为这个加倍是支持下加倍,直接加叫2是四张支持,即使是知道同伴手中是5张
你是如何着想的?
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#2 User is offline   cnszsun 

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Posted 2013-February-01, 20:52

我也和原帖主的想法一致。在同伴已经保证5张高花的情况下,支持性加倍不再适用,这里的加倍就是一般的否定性加倍。
Michael Sun

#3 User is offline   3ntmk 

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Posted 2013-February-01, 21:06

是的。我赞同原帖主的意见。

曾经,我就拿3张加叫过,PD立即提出3张与4张的支持对同伴来说有时是关键的决策因素。况且4-3或4-4配的3阶低花定约有多少胜算?
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#4 User is offline   lipeng2076 

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Posted 2013-February-02, 10:17

不妨试想一下这个位置能做惩罚性X的牌面是?如,-- AKQX AKx  xxxxxx 还有什么样的牌呢,不多见吧?
						
						
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#5 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-February-02, 19:58

 mgoetze, on 2013-January-31, 12:56, said:

Welcome to the forums, MarilynLi. Unfortunately, you seem to have found the wrong subforum. This post is much more suitable for the

"Intermediate/Advanced" forum or the "Natural Bidding Discussion" forum. Note that posting in these forums does NOT mean you won't get answers from

experts. On the contrary, they will be much more willing to give you helpful, detailed explanations there.

(My thought, by the way, is that double should show 2 spades and some diamonds.)

mgoetze这位专家主要观点是:你不要期望在论坛上得到答案,恰恰相反的是,你将获得更多的有益性的详尽解释。

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 Siegmund, on 2013-February-01, 00:14, said:

There was a time, in the ancient past, when it might well have been penalty.

I imagine generic extras is the most common meaning now. I have seen a few people who use X for 3 and any raise with 4, even though 1S showed 5 (and

some people who don't play that 1S promises 5.)

I personally like using this X to promise a doubleton honour, and several of my partners have tried it and liked it, but it's not something you should assume

when you agree support doubles.

As you say, many/most people do bid 2S on 3 cards here.

Siegmund---这位来自美国爱达荷州的著名专家主要观点是:我见过一些牌手使用加倍表示三张支持,直接加叫用四张之类的约定,甚至于知道1S表示5张(但也有牌手的确不承诺1s是五张)。
我个人喜爱的方式是:加倍=承诺双张,含一大。我和我的几个搭档也是这样用的,不过这些都是在约定的前提下。
正如你所以,相当多的牌手直接用三张加叫2S。

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 Trinidad, on 2013-February-01, 07:31, said:

I have played 3 versions

- A raise shows three card support, the double shows 2 card support. Other calls deny 2 card support.
- A raise shows four card support, the double shows 3 card support. Other calls deny 3 card support.
- A raise shows three card support, the double shows 2 card support and a hand that cannot make a decent other bid. Other calls may contain 2 card

support.

In my opinion, the last method works best. It works even better when 2NT is played as artificial, containing -among others- a three card invitational raise.

This leads to:
1-1-1-2:
Dbl: 2 card support, nothing else noteworthy about the hand
2: 3 card support, minimum
2NT: Good/Bad 2NT, including an invitational or better three card raise.
3m: Natural (good hand) could hold 2 spades
3: Invitational or better four card raise
3: Minimum four card raise
3NT: to play
4: 4 card support, good club suit
4: Splinter raise
4 To play

Rik

Trinidad---这位来自荷兰的专家,详细见解如下:
在这种情况下,我打过三种不同的版本:
1-加叫表示三张支持,加倍表示双张,其他的争叫表示否认双张支持。
2-加叫表示四张支持,加倍表示三张,其他的争叫表示否认三张支持。
3-加叫表示三张支持,加倍表示双张支持,同时不能作出其他好的争叫,其他的争叫表示不否认双张支持。

IMO,最后一个方法效果最好!尤其是当把2nt作为一个约定叫---包括了三张支持的邀请性加叫。
叫牌卡如下:
1-1-1-2:
Dbl=2 张支持,别无可提的估值叫品。
2= 3 张支持, 低限。
2NT=约定性叫品:好坏2nt,包括了邀请或更好的三张支持。
3m=自然叫品(好的估值牌面),可能持有双张S。
3=邀请或更好的四张支持性加叫。
3=低限四张加叫
3NT= to play,我要打。
4=四张支持,好的C套。
4= Splinter 加叫!
4=To play,我要打。

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上述仅是节选了我所感兴趣的代表性发言,啊...洋洋洒洒,煞是好看!
不可否则,较多的人主要还是要坚持X=3张,直接加叫=4张。这是常识应用,尤其是当你面对的不是固定搭档时。
不过,列位,切莫一位昆仑山上就这一颗松!这不是全貌。我呢心里面最喜爱恭听最后那位荷兰牌手的意见,所以把他的意见详细翻译出来,以资共赏。
开眼界吧。BBO论坛真好!
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#6 User is offline   haikuo 

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Posted 2013-February-25, 00:08

这个都可约定吧,我认为是支持性的,3和4张支持还是有区别的
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#7 User is offline   wuhuan 

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Posted 2013-February-26, 01:32

大开眼界!
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