[lycier]

A hand ：

---

B hand ：

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As for opening problem,I wonder whether everybody make a final decision based on 22 bidding rule ,if you obey it,you don't open in the two hand,do you agree this prospoal? why?

[ahydra]

What is the "22 bidding rule"? I've heard of Rule of 20 (sometimes 19), which people use to open - if your points + two longest suits come to 20 then you should open. On that you would open A but not B. I would open A with a weak NT but B would depend on how I'm feeling at the time - likely pass.

ahydra

Edit: I'd also really like to learn what "Let the human equality to cognize the world" means

[Zelandakh]

ahydra, on 2013-February-20, 06:24, said:

Edit: I'd also really like to learn what "Let the human equality to cognize the world" means

A quick google shows this to be the slogan for Baidu Encyclopedia, some kind of Chinese wiki. It sounds to me like a typical Asian translation though. All your base are belong to us.

[Vampyr]

ahydra, on 2013-February-20, 06:24, said:

What is the "22 bidding rule"? I've heard of Rule of 20 (sometimes 19), which people use to open - if your points + two longest suits come to 20 then you should open. On that you would open A but not B. I would open A with a weak NT but B would depend on how I'm feeling at the time - likely pass.

Maybe you add your points and your three longest suits? Maybe there is a rule of 24 too -- add your HCP to the number of cards in your hand.

[gwnn]

lmgtfy.

http://www.bridgeguy...ons/Rule22.html

I would pass on the first one usually because it's inordinately ugly (fortunately I never get dealt these hands in real life) and open the second one because it has spades and two aces.

[Cyberyeti]

I'd open a weak no trump on both in first, second or 4th seats, I'd pass the first in 3rd, opening 1♠ on the second.

[billw55]

ahydra, on 2013-February-20, 06:24, said:

What is the "22 bidding rule"? I've heard of Rule of 20 (sometimes 19), which people use to open - if your points + two longest suits come to 20 then you should open.

Apparently the rule of 22 is the same thing. Although, I cannot even construct a hand that would meet this criteria and fail to open. A 5-4 13 count, 5-5 or 6-4 12 count, 6-5 11 count? This "rule" sounds way too conservative to me.

In general, I don't use such metrics to make bidding decisions. I count my high card points and apply my judgement. Rules of 20 or 19 or whatever are reserved for self-defense during post mortem

[gordontd]

gwnn, on 2013-February-20, 07:00, said:

lmgtfy.

http://www.bridgeguy...ons/Rule22.html

It says:

Quote

The bridge player, who decides to open light, counts the length of the two LONGEST SUITS and adds that total to the number of high card points.

If the combined result is 22 or more, then the player should open the hand.

LOL - they think opening a 5-5 12-count is opening light!

[gwnn]

I think you cut the quote short. What they say is (rephrased):
-with 22+: always open (i.e. all 4-4 or 5332 12 counts)
-with 20-21: only open if you have two defensive tricks
-with 19-: never open

I have heard it sometimes referred as 'rule of 22' as in HCP+longest suits+defensive tricks should be >=22.

[gordontd]

gwnn, on 2013-February-20, 08:21, said:

I think you cut the quote short. What they say is (rephrased):
-with 22+: always open (i.e. all 4-4 or 5332 12 counts)
-with 20-21: only open if you have two defensive tricks
-with 19-: never open

I have heard it sometimes referred as 'rule of 22' as in HCP+longest suits+defensive tricks should be >=22.

Hmm, if that's what they're saying, they're saying to open all 4-4 14-counts (not 12 counts, which only add up to 20). I don't think even Roth needed to be told that!

[ahydra]

Quote

-with 22+: always open (i.e. all 4-4 or 5332 12 counts)

But 12 + 4 + 4 = 20, not 22?

ahydra

edit: sorry, crosspost with gordontd

[billw55]

gwnn, on 2013-February-20, 08:21, said:

I think you cut the quote short. What they say is (rephrased):
-with 22+: always open (i.e. all 4-4 or 5332 12 counts)
-with 20-21: only open if you have two defensive tricks
-with 19-: never open

I have heard it sometimes referred as 'rule of 22' as in HCP+longest suits+defensive tricks should be >=22.

Whatever it is, my point stands: an algorithm is not a substitute for judgement.

[gwnn]

gordontd, on 2013-February-20, 08:29, said:

Hmm, if that's what they're saying, they're saying to open all 4-4 14-counts (not 12 counts, which only add up to 20). I don't think even Roth needed to be told that!

yes, sorry, I misplaced the parantheses

[kenberg]

gwnn, on 2013-February-20, 07:00, said:

lmgtfy.

http://www.bridgeguy...ons/Rule22.html

I would pass on the first one usually because it's inordinately ugly (fortunately I never get dealt these hands in real life) and open the second one because it has spades and two aces.

OK, from this link the Rule of 22 is a variant on the Rule of 20. Neither of which do I regard as gospel. If I have a hand with 5-5 and ten highs, most of the highs in the two suits, I probably open it. I want to see the hand before I commit, but probably I open it and it has nothing to do with a memorized rule. It would not occur to me to apply such a rule with hands of the posted shape.

I also pass the first and (probably) open the second, pretty much for the reasons you state. Counting QJ tight as 3 points doesn't appeal to me, a trump suit that begins QJ9 is better than one that begins QT9, it is more likely that I want the QJ9 suit led if my lho opponent is ultimately the declarer, and spades are better than hearts.

[Phil]

These hands are a great illustration why the "Rule of 20" (and other assorted 'rules') are flawed.

I would pass 1 and open 2.

(Its mildly curious that 2 is a 25 point ZAR 1♠ opener, and 1 has 24 and is a pass)

[Wayne_LV]

ahydra, on 2013-February-20, 06:24, said:

What is the "22 bidding rule"? I've heard of Rule of 20 (sometimes 19), which people use to open - if your points + two longest suits come to 20 then you should open. On that you would open A but not B. I would open A with a weak NT but B would depend on how I'm feeling at the time - likely pass.

ahydra

Edit: I'd also really like to learn what "Let the human equality to cognize the world" means

The rule of 22 is basically the rule of 20 + quick tricks, i.e. if hcp + combined length of 2 longest suits + quick tricks = 22, then open. This is somewhat redundant since the rule of 20 also requires 2 Quick Tricks and specifies that the playing strength be concentrated in the 2 longest suits.

[Zelandakh]

Phil, on 2013-February-20, 09:58, said:

(Its mildly curious that 2 is a 25 point ZAR 1♠ opener, and 1 has 24 and is a pass)

Hand B is 26 ZP isn't it? 11 + 4 + 10 + 3 - 2.

[Wayne_LV]

lycier, on 2013-February-20, 05:52, said:

A hand ：

---

B hand ：

---

As for opening problem,I wonder whether everybody make a final decision based on 22 bidding rule ,if you obey it,you don't open in the two hand,do you agree this prospoal? why?

Hand A I would pass ... it contains a bad 12 count, less if you deduct for no Aces and has dubious defensive values. It definitely does not qualify for the application of rule of 20 since the hcp are NOT concentrated in the 2 longest suits.

Hand B I would open in the 3 seat based on 11 hcp, 12 total points and 2 Quick Tricks, I would open it in 4 seat based on rule of 15 (hcp+ # of spades). I would pass in seats 1 or 2. This hand also does not qualify for the application of the rule of 20, again the hcp are not concentrated in the 2 longest suits. I expect many would open this 11 hcp hand in any seat, but to my taste, it is too weak to open with an unpassed partner. If partner opens, then the hand may well revalue to game going. If partner fails to open the bidding then you are in a pretty good defensive position.

The rule of 20 should, IMHO, only be applied to true 2-suited hands.

[Phil]

Zelandakh, on 2013-February-20, 10:02, said:

Hand B is 26 ZP isn't it? 11 + 4 + 10 + 3 - 2.

Yes, can't add.

[lowerline]

lycier, on 2013-February-20, 05:52, said:

A hand ：

---

B hand ：

---

As for opening problem,I wonder whether everybody make a final decision based on 22 bidding rule ,if you obey it,you don't open in the two hand,do you agree this prospoal? why?

Hand A is a clear pass. Unless in 3th or 4th position and playing some form of Drury.
Hand B is borderline. The 2 aces and the intermediates in spades draw me towards a 1♠ opening.

Is rule of 22 = rule of 20 + QTs? That rule will tell you hand B is better than hand A, but does not allow you to open any of them.

Steven