[gwnn]

all vul at mps, RHO deals

1♦-p-1♠-p
1NT-2♣

on

Qx
Tx
Kx
T98xxxx
?

[helene_t]

No I don't think so. 2♣ here would make sense with something like xx-KQxx-Ax-Qxxxx, assuming that double in this position would be penalties. Even if 2♣ here shows this hand, what's the point? Maybe 3♣ would show a and too weak for an immediate WJO. But vulnerable that would be suicide.

So with this hand I would pass.

[gnasher]

I think this 2♣ bid shows diamonds and clubs.

It's unlikely that I have just clubs, want to bid now, and didn't want to bid earlier. With Gwnn's hand I'm unconvinced that it's safer to bid 2♣ now than 3♣ on the previous round. I wouldn't do either, though I'd be a bit nervous about passing throughout.

With Helene's hand (xx-KQxx-Ax-Qxxxx), I'd make a takeout double. This hand-type is much more common than a trap-pass, and doubling rather than bidding 2♣ has the advantage that it can be left in.

[han]

Usually I laugh about people who pass first and then overcall (behind their backs of course, I am polite). But here I think that the delayed 2C is ok. Contrary to gnasher I am convinced that it is safer to bid 2C now than to jump to 3C on the previous round.

[paulg]

han, on 2013-February-14, 06:56, said:

Usually I laugh about people who pass first and then overcall (behind their backs of course, I am polite). But here I think that the delayed 2C is ok. Contrary to gnasher I am convinced that it is safer to bid 2C now than to jump to 3C on the previous round.

Much safer, surely it's Ghestem on the first round.

[mcphee]

Personally I think bidding 2C is just a foolish waste of time.

[lalldonn]

I don't think your hand quite makes it but I think you have the right idea. If it was xx xx Kx QJT9xxx then I would do it if I were too scared to bid 3♣ the first time (and I think being too scared for that r/r at mps is reasonable), or maybe you are playing intermediate jump overcalls vul or something.

[Free]

This delayed 2♣ is a total waste of time. We don't take space away, we don't want partner to lead ♣ when he has Kx for example, and with this vulnerability we don't even want to find a sacrifice.

[lalldonn]

Free, on 2013-February-14, 12:41, said:

This delayed 2♣ is a total waste of time. We don't take space away, we don't want partner to lead ♣ when he has Kx for example, and with this vulnerability we don't even want to find a sacrifice.

You might want to.... play 2♣! Pretend partner is a 4441 12 count. What would you rather do, play 2♣ or have partner lead a heart against 1NT?

(I meant that about my example hand, not the hand gwnn held where I still don't love it although I think it has merit)

[PhilKing]

paulg, on 2013-February-14, 07:06, said:

Much safer, surely it's Ghestem on the first round.

Only if you are a respected player.

[mikeh]

Free, on 2013-February-14, 12:41, said:

This delayed 2♣ is a total waste of time. We don't take space away, we don't want partner to lead ♣ when he has Kx for example, and with this vulnerability we don't even want to find a sacrifice.

I wouldn't commit the bid, but it is incorrect to say that it is a 'total waste'.

LHO may very well be intending to bid 2♣ as some form of new minor. They may have the agreement that double fills in for that bid, but I would expect most to play, with or without express agreement, that double is penalty.

One therefore may create a problem for LHO for which he has no solution that doesn't entail risk that his partner will misunderstand.

How would one bid an invitational hand with 5♠ after the 2♣ call? There are other possible problems as well, but while I have no problem with the concept of bidding 2♣, having initially passed, I'd want the jdonn hand for such action.

[gnasher]

If I bid 2♣, it would be because I wanted to play 2♣ rather than defend 1NT, or 3♣ rather than defend two of a major.

I wouldn't want to have the jdonn hand for this action, because that would imply that I played Ghestem.

[PhilKing]

gnasher, on 2013-February-14, 13:16, said:

If I bid 2♣, it would be because I wanted to play 2♣ rather than defend 1NT, or 3♣ rather than defend two of a major.

I wouldn't want to have the jdonn hand for this action, because that would imply that I played Ghestem.

Play 1NT as natural or weak with clubs - that frees up 3♣ for ...

Er, strong?

[lalldonn]

gnasher, on 2013-February-14, 13:16, said:

If I bid 2♣, it would be because I wanted to play 2♣ rather than defend 1NT, or 3♣ rather than defend two of a major.

I wouldn't want to have the jdonn hand for this action, because that would imply that I played Ghestem.

A significant number of US players (not including jdonn, but including jlall) play intermediate jump overcalls when vulnerable.

[Siegmund]

Quote

What would you rather do, play 2♣ or have partner lead a heart against 1NT?

I'll be very unhappy if partner leads out of turn against 1 (or 3) notrump.

I think I may well be happier leading a club than playing in clubs however.