[wyman]

r/w IMPs

Qxx / x / AQJ10x / J109x

(2S) 3C (P) ?

[billw55]

5♣. Red at IMPs convinced me.

[SteveMoe]

3♠ and let's see...

[lmilne]

I don't think 3NT is a good bid with a dubious spade holding, stiff heart and so much in the minors. So I see the options as 3♦ and 3♠.

Normally I would raise partner immediately but a) 3♠ doesn't necessarily show a club fit in this auction (lack of space), so it's not as appealing and b) 3♦ does quite a good job of describing my hand while also staying low. 3♦ followed by 4♣ over partner's expected 3♥ bid sounds fairly convincing to me. If partner doesn't bid 3♥, I hope to be better placed with more information.

[MrAce]

3♠, shows a fit, even if we have to use it now and then when don't have one, but these hands are awkward hands, such as;

-you don't have fit
-you don't have stopper , at least not good enuf to bid 3NT yourself , but most experts are bidding 3NT even with no stopper if they believe 3NT is the most likely game they can make.
-you don't have 5 card of your suit
-Ironically we have game strength

We do not have the luxury to think that 3♠ does not promise fit, incase one day one of us may hold a hand like that, and be hesitant and/or act like fit is not established in all other majority of hands where we will have a fit.


I would bid 3♠ or 4♦ if it shows 4♣ and 5♦ gf values. At these colours imagining how weak 2♠ can be and has not been supported by his pd, 3NT still can be our best game, perhaps 3♠ seems better . But i do not think 5 ♣ will be worse than 3NT. Bidding 3♦ will make me very nervous when pd bids 3NT. I just do not feel comfy when i have to decide between lifting the best game we may have or passing it and hiding a 4 card fit to pd who overcalled at 3 level. I will also be annoyed if pd bids 3♠. Of course i like overcalling with some very strong hands and hiding this fit can be costly. I will not look for another minor fit when we have at least 5-4 but probably 6-4 fit.

One thing i agree with previous poster is that we do not have enuf space and while this makes him to use this space to show his good 5 card suit, i will go with showing my fit and good hand.

[Fluffy]

3♦?

[Fluffy]

3♦?

[wyman]

lmilne: So you are giving up on 3N altogether? Isn't partner incredibly likely to have spade help?

Other 3D bidders: Is partner ever going to raise diamonds? Doesn't that give opps like 9-10+ hearts? I understand planning to bid 3N over 3H or 3S to show doubt, but I worry about RHO dbling 3H for the lead, for example.

3S bidders: Are you bidding 4C if partner bids 3N? If we don't plan to bid over 3N, we've wrongsided now.

4C/4D/5C bidders: I'm surprised. I wish I knew how to evaluate your instinct that 5C is more likely than 3N. I don't know how useful sims would be. But I'm definitely intrigued.

I have no idea what's right on this hand, but I think it's a lot more interesting decision than it appeared at first glance. Would love to hear more thoughts. Thanks for the comments so far.

[JLOGIC]

Why is them having 9-10 hearts so unlikely? 9 is obv the most likely number for them but arguably 10 is more likely than 8 (partner doesn't have 4 hearts that often).

[akhare]

Do folks that play transfer advances of overcalls still use them in this situation?

For example, in our methods, (2♦) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♦ would show ♥ and (2♦) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♥ would be a good ♠ raise.

Since we haven't agreed on any exceptions, both 3♠ ostensibly showing a good ♣ raise (but probably ambiguous in this situation since we might want to know about a ♠ stopper as well) or 3♦, natural and forcing will work.

[Siegmund]

Looks like I am the lone 3NT bidder here. With reponder passing, too easy for me to see us losing the first 3 tricks in 5C to be eager to go that route.

I also think that them having 8 hearts is far more likely than 10, and quite possibly close to a tie with 9. Maybe my partners bid 3C with 3-4-1-5 more often than others do.

[han]

Good to see you've been advancing Wyman.

[MrAce]

wyman, on 2013-February-09, 10:20, said:

3S bidders: Are you bidding 4C if partner bids 3N? If we don't plan to bid over 3N, we've wrongsided now.

I may or may not pass 3NT, having bid 3♠, depending on how my pd overcalls. I do not worry about wrongsiding paranoia either on this hand. If pd is capable of bidding 3NT there is not too many combinations that will make it wrongsided.

Bidding 3NT with Qxx when my side is likely to have 6-4 fit, a pd who overcalled at 3 level on red, and me hiding that i have a decent hand with a stiff + 4 card supp + a very good 5 card suit is more concern to me than wrong siding 3NT for some combinations in enemy suit.

[Mbodell]

akhare, on 2013-February-09, 14:04, said:

Do folks that play transfer advances of overcalls still use them in this situation?

For example, in our methods, (2♦) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♦ would show ♥ and (2♦) - 2♠ - (P) - 3♥ would be a good ♠ raise.

Since we haven't agreed on any exceptions, both 3♠ ostensibly showing a good ♣ raise (but probably ambiguous in this situation since we might want to know about a ♠ stopper as well) or 3♦, natural and forcing will work.

Yes, I still play transfer advances here.

[nige1]

wyman, on 2013-February-07, 13:51, said:

r/w IMPs
♠ Qxx ♥ x ♦ AQJ10x ♣ JT9x
(2♠) 3♣ (P) ??

IMO 3♦ = 10, 3♠ = 9, 5♣ = 8, 3N = 7, 6♣ = 6
Is 4♣ forcing here?

[lmilne]

wyman, on 2013-February-09, 10:20, said:

lmilne: So you are giving up on 3N altogether? Isn't partner incredibly likely to have spade help?

Other 3D bidders: Is partner ever going to raise diamonds? Doesn't that give opps like 9-10+ hearts? I understand planning to bid 3N over 3H or 3S to show doubt, but I worry about RHO dbling 3H for the lead, for example.

3S bidders: Are you bidding 4C if partner bids 3N? If we don't plan to bid over 3N, we've wrongsided now.

4C/4D/5C bidders: I'm surprised. I wish I knew how to evaluate your instinct that 5C is more likely than 3N. I don't know how useful sims would be. But I'm definitely intrigued.

I have no idea what's right on this hand, but I think it's a lot more interesting decision than it appeared at first glance. Would love to hear more thoughts. Thanks for the comments so far.

If partner bids 3♦ over 3NT, I think I'd pass but it's a difficult problem (to me). I'm still not a fan of bidding 3NT on Qxx with such good playability for clubs. Seems way too final for me.

Partner can definitely raise diamonds.

I don't think 4♦ is all that bad a bid, and I might well have suggested it had it occurred to me (I don't play many fit-showing jumps). It's a very descriptive bid, and giving up on 3NT to play in 5/6/7♣ isn't the end of the world. I agree this hand is interesting!

[gszes]

keep those preempts coming they work--------

3d is the standout bid here it cannot possibly be wishing we could play 3d
instead of 3c after our p made a r/w overcall at the 3 level so it is forcing.

This leaves room for p to bid 3h which will then allow us to bid 3s asking p
to bid 3n with something in spades. If none of this works it is imps and I
will hazard a guess at 5c.

3s takes up too much room and virtually eliminates the dia suit and steers us
to quite possibly a very poor 3n when p does have something in spades but
nothing(not even length) in hearts.
IMO 3d=10 3s=6 3n=4 4c=3 5c=3.