[jack502]

straube, on 2013-February-01, 21:02, said:

That makes sense. Would you like to be a resource for future deals that require defensive decisions? You could let Adam bid those hands so he could have the whole measure of the problem. Maybe others would like to volunteer as well?

Just let me know if you want Jacks interference. I can only do jacks moscito or standard precision being overcalled though probably I can't do forcing pass or any very odd opening bids as unfortunately you can't tell jack what a bid means just alter his cc to something he has already. Qplus can be told what bids mean but not sure it is very useful.

[straube]

.............T9874
.............void
.............AJ652
.............T84
KQ52.......................AJ3
J985........................AT7432
T..............................984
K632........................9
.............6
.............KQ6
.............KQ73
.............AQJ75

SCREAM bids this...

1C-1H (2H) 16+, 2-4 QPs
P (4H) dbl P takeout

[straube]

I've started to post outcomes. I think we need some discussion here. For example, the way I set up the defense, I see IMprecision, Moscito and my own SCREAM getting to 4H doubled which I think is better than 4D making.
This could be bias on my part though I'm trying pretty hard to avoid this. Part of my bias is that I don't really favor doubling an artificial bid at the 1-level for penalty as a hand that can defend this contract ought to be able to bid at the 2-level. I think I'd use double as something else...like CRASH against a nebulous 1H bid or takeout of spades if 1H showed spades. I also think that the votes for 1H and 2H overcalls by East are split and that's really the key to deciding how high the opponents will compete. I suppose we could throw out this hand or we could ask jack502 to decide the matter (opposite 1C-1D as 0-7). Or we could abide by how I set up the problem. What do others think?

If I haven't posted your outcome, please make sure you have a final outcome and complete auction and then send me a message or post me a reminder.

If you feel that the outcomes should be adjusted for various reasons, please start a discussion on that and let us know why you feel that way.

[Zelandakh]

straube, on 2013-February-01, 15:31, said:

I'd like to make an executive decision so we face the same circumstances. I've asked help in another forum and mostly got 2H action for each auction, but I've also got a lot of support for mere 1H overcalls over 1D.

So I'm asking folks to submit auctions for 1H overcalls after a 1D response...and West cues in support at the 3-level whereas over 1H responses or Zelandah's 1S response or over Moscito's response, we get a 2H bid and a 4H advance by West.

Can folks live with that? Please let me know. I'm not sure it's right but we could have a lot of discussion over something that winds up being a judgment call.

I can live with it but I am quite sure it is not right. East, who is supposedly a good player, bids aggressively after a natural, limited opener and a natural, limited response but conservatively over a strong club opening and artificial response. Even worse, their partner West makes a limit raise opposite an overcall that could be done for nuisance value but makes a preemptive raise to game opposite an overcall based on values.

We should publish this sort of bidding - perhaps we can set theory back 50 years. It makes me think of a Twilight Zone episode where we have Meckwell at our table but at every other table in the room are sitting clones of Mrs Guggenheim and her shy sister. Perhaps next round we will get Justin and Bob while the Guggenheims shuffle between the other tables. Hopefully Justin can bring some sense to the E-W bidding.

In fact, now you know how the systems being posted, I think you should be able to construct the various scenarios in advance and perhaps send PMs to a selection of the posters playing at a reasonably high level (Justin, Mike, Andy, Frances, Ben, Han, PhilKing, et al) to get some idea of what would be bid. No doubt some of them are too busy (fred almost certainly) or would not like to participate but I daresay you can find enough to get useful feedback.

Anyway, it is obvious that I will reach 5♦(S) on the suggested E-W bidding.

1♦ = (9)10-17, 4+ diamonds, unbal
... - 1♠ = 4+ spades, weak, non-forcing
(2♥)
3♣ = nat, max
(4♥)
... - 5♦

Sadly, with Meckwell defending (and my declarer play) I am probably going one off. "Sorry partner."

[straube]

Zelandakh, on 2013-February-04, 03:03, said:

I can live with it but I am quite sure it is not right. East, who is supposedly a good player, bids aggressively after a natural, limited opener and a natural, limited response but conservatively over a strong club opening and artificial response. Even worse, their partner West makes a limit raise opposite an overcall that could be done for nuisance value but makes a preemptive raise to game opposite an overcall based on values.

We should publish this sort of bidding - perhaps we can set theory back 50 years. It makes me think of a Twilight Zone episode where we have Meckwell at our table but at every other table in the room are sitting clones of Mrs Guggenheim and her shy sister. Perhaps next round we will get Justin and Bob while the Guggenheims shuffle between the other tables. Hopefully Justin can bring some sense to the E-W bidding.

In fact, now you know how the systems being posted, I think you should be able to construct the various scenarios in advance and perhaps send PMs to a selection of the posters playing at a reasonably high level (Justin, Mike, Andy, Frances, Ben, Han, PhilKing, et al) to get some idea of what would be bid. No doubt some of them are too busy (fred almost certainly) or would not like to participate but I daresay you can find enough to get useful feedback.

Anyway, it is obvious that I will reach 5♦(S) on the suggested E-W bidding.

1♦ = (9)10-17, 4+ diamonds, unbal
... - 1♠ = 4+ spades, weak, non-forcing
(2♥)
3♣ = nat, max
(4♥)
... - 5♦

Sadly, with Meckwell defending (and my declarer play) I am probably going one off. "Sorry partner."

Well, I think Han suggested a 2H bid over every response...including yours...so perhaps we should go with that. Let's let everyone rewrite their auction for that. 2H and I think their partner will raise to 4H (or is their disagreement on that as well?) Apologies to all. I think I'll get an expert opinion next time before posting such a difficult problem.

[JLOGIC]

1C (p) 1D (2H) (strong, 0-7)
P (4H) X AP

[relknes]

straube, on 2013-January-30, 17:29, said:

.............T9874
.............void
.............AJ652
.............T84
KQ52.......................AJ3
J985........................AT7432
T..............................984
K632........................9
.............6
.............KQ6
.............KQ73
.............AQJ75

If East jump overcalls with 2♥, the auction will go:

1♣ - (P) - 1♦ - (2♥)
3♣ - (4♥) - X

And now South has a tough decision. The double here is takeout (5-5 in the unbid suits with 8+ support points for either suit),as opposed to the double of the cuebid which allowed North to show club support, but it can be passed at the 4 level.
So South can visualize the North hand as 5-1-5-2, 5-0-5-3, or a hand theat is 6-5 in the pointed suits (the 5-1-5-2 hand is less likely based on the opponent's bidding). Do they leave the double in for penalties, or bid 5♦ hoping partner dosn't have 5 spades to the KJ or something where we could be down off the top? I lean toward taking it out, I think, but I might very well make a different decision on a different day. If partner does have the ♦A or ♠A, we might set them severely if the opponents are at all mirrored in distribution, but then again those are the same cases we are making 5♦. With a lot of wasted values in spades, we might set them one or two while 5♦ goes down, but there is always the off chance they make it... so I think I bid 5♦.

[straube]

I'm thinking of putting 4HX down for everyone except jack502 and Pass2000. jack502 rebids 3N and I'm not sure what a forcing pass leads to after a 2H preempt and a 4H raise.

What I'm trying to do is to leave out personal judgment here and only assign different outcomes due to system differences. I would think Pass2000 and Moscito would have the highest chance for deviation on this hand.

So I'd like to hear if others are comfortable with this...and I'd like to see an auction for Pass2000 with the condition we've set of East preempting or bidding 2H and West raising to 4H.

[relknes]

I am fine with that.

[Free]

4♥x for me as well

[Kungsgeten]

Pass 2000 would systematically get the same result as the 1D 0-7 systems I guess. By 4H, South will have shown 17+ with 5+C and north will have shown 0-7. Our system when 17+ vs 0-7 is almost identical (or could be) to any strong club system.

[Zelandakh]

straube, on 2013-February-04, 13:56, said:

I'm thinking of putting 4HX down for everyone except jack502 and Pass2000.

Not for me. There is no way North is doubling rather than supporting diamonds.

[hrothgar]

straube, on 2013-February-04, 13:56, said:

What I'm trying to do is to leave out personal judgment here and only assign different outcomes due to system differences. I would think Pass2000 and Moscito would have the highest chance for deviation on this hand.

The big deviation on the MOSCITO auction would appear to be the fact that the 2♥ overcall is no longer a jump.
I think that this leads to a different set of inferences.

I posted two possible MOSCITO auctions upthread based on whether or not the partner of the 2♥ bidder decides to bid 4♥.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't see a convincing auction to 5♦.
Contracting for 11 tricks after a semi positive is hairy.
There are too many different layouts where 5♦ could go very wrong.

[straube]

ok. I think the outcomes are correct now. Please check. I have Zelandakh down for 5D and Hrothgar for 4H X and same for Pass2000.

[Lord Molyb]

Quote

.............T9874
.............void
.............AJ652
.............T84
KQ52.......................AJ3
J985........................AT7432
T..............................984
K632........................9
.............6
.............KQ6
.............KQ73
.............AQJ75

Molybdenum Forcing Pass System:
S ---- N
P --- 1♣ (2♥) (opening, 0-bad 12)
dbl (4♥) dbl (general takeout, 2 places to play)
P (opposite some values, the contract should go down sufficiently)

By the way, I changed first X from showing the other major(s) to takeout (much easier)

If east overcalled 1♥ and west cuebid it goes
S ---- N
P --- 1♣ (1♥) (see above)
2♣ (3♣) P (3♥) (clubs with 16+, not enough unless south bids more)
3NT --- 5♦ (both minors with longer clubs, signoff)

That auction is a bit optimistic though.

[Zelandakh]

Lord Molyb, on 2013-February-26, 20:35, said:

Molybdenum Forcing Pass System:

Could you write an auction under the new conditions - East overcalls 2♥, West raises to 4♥.

[Lord Molyb]

Zelandakh, on 2013-February-27, 06:52, said:

Could you write an auction under the new conditions - East overcalls 2♥, West raises to 4♥.

done

[PrecisionL]

Upgraded Ultra Club Relay (C3):

1♣ P 1♦ (1♥
2♣ (3♣} Pass (3♥)
Pass P X P P
4♦


1♣ P 1♦ (2♥)
X (2-places to play) (4♥} 4♠ P
5♣ P 5♦ All pass

[CamHenry]

Unnamed Homebrew Diamond:
1♦-(P)-1♥-(2♥) 16+, excluding GF / 0-7 (almost) any

Difficult call for S here. 2NT is natural, so the spade singleton is unfortunate; double is takeout; pass is non-forcing. I think a likely continuation is:

3♣-(4♥)-P-(P) 5+ cards, "smallest lie" / nothing to say
X-(P)-4♠-P Penalties / no defense
4N-(P)-5♦-AP Two places to play / This looks like the best fit

Of course, this may well be -1 as it's difficult to avoid a club ruff. Other possible contracts include 4♥X, and 5♣ - the latter of which has trump control issues on a forcing defence, which is probably indicated on the auction.

I'll have to talk about this one with Matt.

[benlessard]

1D-3C (unb 4D, mixed raise 4 trumps+ruff power may have 4M)
3Nt

or more likely

1D-(P)-1S-(2H) (1S show 5S but nf)
X--(3H)-4D-?? (X is semi penalties, 4D is probably void in H or super fit no interest in 3Hx)

4Hx or 5D.