[straube]

You are South and dealer. V vs NV. Imps. Uncontested auction.


......................AKT
......................AKQT42
......................93
......................84
Q976.....................................8542
8653......................................97
6...........................................Q8742
Q652.....................................J7
......................J3
......................J
.....................AKJT5
.....................AKT93

Outcomes

6H S SCREAM
6H N Precision by Free (7H?)
6H N Meckwell Light
7H S IMprecision
6H N OCP
6H N Moscito (7H?)
7H N New Big Club (HK)
6N S qplus10
7N S jack502
6N N TOSR
7H S Silent Club

7H N Zelandakh (1D opening)
6H N Polish Club (1D opening)
6N S Pass200 (forcing pass opening)
7H S Jasmine Club

[straube]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:03, said:

You are South and dealer. V vs NV. Imps. Uncontested auction.


......................AKT
......................AKQT42
......................93
......................84
Q976.....................................8542
8653.....................................97
6...........................................Q8742
Q652.....................................J7
......................J3
......................J
.....................AKJT5
.....................AKT93

1C-1D 16+, GF unbal with major OR GF bal
1S-1N various minor based, asking
2C-2D both minors, asking
2S-2N 5/5, asking
3H-3S 2155, asking
3N......10 QPs

Unlucky for us because North can't decipher the crucial HJ.

Edit: after looking at other auctions I feel more optimistic...

1C-1D 16+, GF unbal with major OR GF bal
1S-1N various minor based, asking
2C-2D both minors, asking
2S-2N 5/5, asking
3H-3S 2155, asking
3N-4C 10 QPs
4D-4H asking, 0 or 2 top diamonds
4S-4N asking, 0 or 2 top clubs
6H

I think in the future we'll be scanning for jacks, but it's not proper to add tools after you see that you need them. Still, I think we get to 6H.

[Free]

Not an easy one imo, it could go various ways. Should responder set trumps opposite whatever opener has? Should opener bid frivolous or serious with his AK AK?

I guess something like:
1♣-1♥ (16+ any ; GF 5+♥)
2♦-3♥? (5+♦ ; sets trumps)
3♠?-3NT (frivolous ; ♠ cue)
4♣-4♦ (♣ cue ; last train)
4♠-5♣ (Kickback RKC ; 0/3)
5♦-5♠ (♥Q? ; ♥Q and ♠K)
7♥/NT-pass (deciding which grand to bid)

I'd probably bid 7NT at MP because I would expect partner to have a 7 card ♥. This gives us 7 ♥ tricks and 2 trick in each side suit. Even if it's only a 6 card suit we can try a finesse/drop/squeeze/... At imps I'd probably bid 7♥ because it gives us more options when responder would appear to have only 6 ♥s.

Note: if opener decides to bid serious, then he'll bid 4♣ immediately and the rest of the auction will be identical.

[straube]

 Free, on 2013-January-27, 10:23, said:

Not an easy one imo, it could go various ways. Should responder set trumps opposite whatever opener has? Should opener bid frivolous or serious with his AK AK?

I guess something like:
1♣-1♥ (16+ any ; GF 5+♥)
2♦-3♥? (5+♦ ; sets trumps)
3♠?-3NT (frivolous ; ♠ cue)
4♣-4♦ (♣ cue ; last train)
4♠-5♣ (Kickback RKC ; 0/3)
5♦-5♠ (♥Q? ; ♥Q and ♠K)
7♥/NT-pass (deciding which grand to bid)

I'd probably bid 7NT at MP because I would expect partner to have a 7 card ♥. This gives us 7 ♥ tricks and 2 trick in each side suit. Even if it's only a 6 card suit we can try a finesse/drop/squeeze/... At imps I'd probably bid 7♥ because it gives us more options when responder would appear to have only 6 ♥s.

Note: if opener decides to bid serious, then he'll bid 4♣ immediately and the rest of the auction will be identical.

I'm wondering if North should really set trump with that. I thought (for slam purposes) that setting trump meant you didn't have an expectation for a loser opposite a singleton other than the A, K, or Q...something you could pick up on RKC. With AKQTxx I think it matters to North whether South has a small stiff or certainly a void. How about a 2H rebid? If South can rebid diamonds, I would be happy to support with this hand. Also, I don't understand the last train bid unless it's purely to invite South to RKC before North has to take over.

[JLOGIC]

Impossible to say but:

1C 1N (strong, 12+ with hearts)
2D 2H (nat, nat)
3C 3H (3S is a possible bid but AKQTxx seems like rebidding again?)
4H 4S (keycard)
5D 6H

I mean meh, north bid hearts 3 times and knows his partner has weak spades so the 4H bid could be on a small stiff. The critical question is could south have, say, 2254 and bid 3C before raising hearts to get clubs in? Especially given he may have all or almost all his values in the minors given our hand obviously. Or would he raise to 3H directly.

If partner always has a stiff heart, and would raise indiscriminately with stiff J or a small stiff, then we are cold 14.7 % of the time, and the other 85.3 % of the time we are 52 % which is 44.4 %, so we are about 59 % to bring in hearts opposite any stiff, IF we have the required amount of side tricks. The other thing is, IF we have the required amount of side tricks, we might be cold or on a hook for 7N without hearts, for instance if partner had Jx x AKQJx AKxxx. Arguably we should try to get to 7N and hope for the best, especially if partner ever has 2 hearts.

Anyways, those are the arguments for north moving, but at the end of the day I don't want to be in a grand opposite a stiff small heart and I bid hearts 3 times so I don't think that's unlikely. I also might not have enough tricks in NT and need to ruff a spade (esp if partner is 22 in the majors), so I won't always find the right grand when I try. And IRL I am not really in the business of gambling out grands.

Feel free to critique my thinking if I'm wrong, for instance maybe south would not raise to 4H on a small stiff that often and would choose to rebid 4m?

[awm]

IMprecision:

1♣ - 1♦ (strong, 0-4 or balanced GF or 7+RP)
2♠ - 2NT (5/5 or more in the minors, GF relay)
3♥ - 3♠ (2155, relay for strength)
3NT - 4♣ (9-10 RP, relay)
4♥ - 4♠ (10 RP with 0 or 2 top diamonds, relay)
4NT - 5♣ (0 or 2 top clubs, relay)
5♦ - 5♥ (0 or 2 top spades, relay)
5♠ - 5NT (0 or 2 top hearts, relay for jacks)
6♦ - 6♥ (diamond jack no club jack, relay)
7♣ - 7♥ (spade and heart jacks, to play)

On the jack-asking sequence, it may be worth noting that we don't normally open 1♣ on 15-counts with 5/5 in the minors. It's too easy to get preempted out of the auction on such hands, and they are further from game than one might expect because you need more for 5m than 4M. So once responder determines that partner has AK/AK in the minors (and no other AKQ cards) it's definite that he will have a couple jacks somewhere. This makes a 6NT contract pretty high percentage and 7♥ will be good if the heart jack is among the jacks. There was never a chance of getting past 6NT without the heart jack during the relays.

[FM75]

OCP

1♣ - 1♥
2♦ - 2♠ 4+controls, less than Hxx or xxxx
3♣ - 3♦ less than Hx or xxx
3♥ - 4♠ AKQxxx, sets trump
4N - 5♥ 6 controls
5♠ - 5N 1st and 2nd round only - based on existing count AKx(x)
6♥

I have a sure 12 tricks against 4-2 trump.
I do not know where the ten is but opps are 2:1 to have it.
If they lead anything but trump, I can ruff partner's 3rd spade,
but may be losing a trick on a 4-2 split if we are missing the 10.

I am expecting a trump lead and about a 93% small slam.


It would be interesting to see how a field would end up on this hand.

[straube]

 awm, on 2013-January-27, 11:46, said:

IMprecision:

1♣ - 1♦ (strong, 0-4 or balanced GF or 7+RP)
2♠ - 2NT (5/5 or more in the minors, GF relay)
3♥ - 3♠ (2155, relay for strength)
3NT - 4♣ (9-10 RP, relay)
4♥ - 4♠ (10 RP with 0 or 2 top diamonds, relay)
4NT - 5♣ (0 or 2 top clubs, relay)
5♦ - 5♥ (0 or 2 top spades, relay)
5♠ - 5NT (0 or 2 top hearts, relay for jacks)
6♦ - 6♥ (diamond jack no club jack, relay)
7♣ - 7♥ (spade and heart jacks, to play)

On the jack-asking sequence, it may be worth noting that we don't normally open 1♣ on 15-counts with 5/5 in the minors. It's too easy to get preempted out of the auction on such hands, and they are further from game than one might expect because you need more for 5m than 4M. So once responder determines that partner has AK/AK in the minors (and no other AKQ cards) it's definite that he will have a couple jacks somewhere. This makes a 6NT contract pretty high percentage and 7♥ will be good if the heart jack is among the jacks. There was never a chance of getting past 6NT without the heart jack during the relays.

Nice auction. We have the same inference about a couple of jacks, but we don't scan for them that high. I think we'll have to add that back in. I think I'm going to edit my auction, too because after reading your post and Justin's post, I think we should at least be on a hook for 6H.

[hrothgar]

This one is kinda involved

1♣ - 1♦ 1♦ = GF
1♥ - 1♠ 1♥ = prefers to ask. 1♠ = lots of hand types
1N - 2♥ 1N = relay 2♥ = single suited with hearts
2♠ - 3♦
3♥ - 3♠ 3♠ = 6322 shape
4♦ - 5♣ 4♦ = terminator 5♣ = 11QP
5♦ - 5♥ 5♦ = Spiral scan 5♥ = AKQ in Hearts
5♠ - 6♣ 5♠ = Spiral scan 6♣ = 1/2 in Spades, nothing in Clubs
6♦ - 6♥ 6♦ = Spiral scan 6♥ = nothing in Diamonds
7♥

The key choice is the decision to ask with 1H rather than show
Opener has a minimum hand, but a 5-5-2-1 won't be resolved until 3♠ so opener prefers to ask
After determining shape, Opener prefers 4♥ to 3N
Relay responder has more than enough shape to continue on past the sign off

If opener decides to show rather than ask (which is a legitimate choice) we'll only reach 6♥

[nige1]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:03, said:

#19. You are South and dealer. V vs NV. Imps. Uncontested auction.

Jasmine ♣. IMO here, ♥ are a "good" suit, so the likely auction is...
North ♠ AKT ♥ AKQT42 ♦ 93 ♣ 84: __ 3♦ 3♠ 4♠ 5♣
South ♠ J3 ♥ J ♦ AKJT5 ♣ AKT93: 1♣ 3♥ 4♥ 4N 7♥

• 1♣ = Art, 16+.
• 3♦ = Transfer, good long suit.
• 3♥ = Key-ask.
• 3♠ = Art, 0/3 keys.
  
• 4♥ = Waiting.
• 4♠ = ♠K
• 4N = Trump ask
• 5♣ = ♥Q but nothing else.
• 7♥ = Punt.

Alternatively, if North is unwilling to emphasise ♥ with only six,
North ♠ AKT ♥ AKQT42 ♦ 93 ♣ 84: __ 1♠ 2♠ 3♠ 5N
South ♠ J3 ♥ J ♦ AKJT5 ♣ AKT93: 1♣ 2♦ 3♣ 4♣ 6N

• 1♣ = Art, 16+.
• 1♠ = Art, 8+, 4+ ♥, denies 4+ ♠.
• 2♦ = Nat
• 2♠ = Art, 5+ ♥
• 3♣ = Nat
• 3♠ = Art, 6+ ♥
• 4♣ = Nat
• 5N = Pick a slam
• 6♦ = Nat
  
• 6N = Nat (or pass).

Marks, IMO: 7♥ = 10. 6♥, 6N = 7. 6♦ = 6. 7♦/7N = 5. 6♣ = 4. games = 2.

[rbforster]

Silent Club:

1♣-1♦ strong; most 0-7, some GFs
1♥-2♣ art min; heart one-suiter, inv+
2♦-3♥ weak relay; 3622 GF
3N-4♥ sign off; 11 QPs
4♠-4N relay; AKQ♥
5♣-5♥ relay; 1-2 spade cards, no diamond card
5♠-5N relay; no club card (actual hand known up to maybe J♣)
7♥-P I think this has good odds

This is more a single dummy odds problem for us than a bidding one, since we know about the strong heart suit and locate all the QPs by 5N. At that point it's just judging whether the cold 6N is better than trying for the heart (or NT) grand. Not knowing about the spade hook (we can't find tens), it still looks like 4-2 or better clubs OR Q♦ dropping.

[Free]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:40, said:

Also, I don't understand the last train bid unless it's purely to invite South to RKC before North has to take over.

The last train basically forces opener to go for slam if he has a ♦ control (which is very likely ofcourse). Bidding 4♥ instead of 4♦ only invites opener to continue with a ♦ cue. With 16 opposite 16 we don't want to miss slam, so we force.

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:40, said:

I'm wondering if North should really set trump with that. I thought (for slam purposes) that setting trump meant you didn't have an expectation for a loser opposite a singleton other than the A, K, or Q...something you could pick up on RKC. With AKQTxx I think it matters to North whether South has a small stiff or certainly a void. How about a 2H rebid? If South can rebid diamonds, I would be happy to support with this hand.

Yeah, that's why I asked the question IF he sets trumps, it's an easy way to grand for us, otherwise it will be more difficult. After a 2♥ rebid it will start as follows:
1♣-1♥ (16+ any ; GF 5+♥)
2♦-2♥ (5+♦ ; 6+♥)
3♣-3♥ (4+♣ ; 7+♥ or extremely good 6 card I guess)
?
Now the question is what's South going to do. Probably raise, after which North will ask keycards expecting all suits to be covered.
4♥-4♠ (1♥, probably not 2 ; Kickback RKC)
5♦-6♥ (2 without ♥Q ; I guess we're not in a gambling mood)
When all keycards are accounted for, should North go to grand? When gambling you can just bid grand, hoping for partner holding the ♥J (14,29%) or (when partner isn't holding the J) a 3-3 split (0,8571 * 35,53% = 30,45%) or any Jx-xxxx split (0,8571 * 48,44% * 33,33% = 13,84%) for a total of 58,58% when we're planning to play AKQ. However, I'm not a gambler, so I'd sign off in 6♥.

For the record: 5♠ would ask for Kings, 5NT would be "pick a slam", so we're unable to look for ♥J.

[antonylee]

Not a 1♣ opener for me.
1♦-1♥
3♣-3♥ (3♣: good 15-18 55)
3♠-??? (4SF -- trying to make responder declare some number of NT)
Now the problem is that responder would also like to be dummy, so it's going to be murky...
... 4♠ (cue)
5N-6♥ (too complicated, just pick a slam; OK)

[relknes]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:03, said:

You are South and dealer. V vs NV. Imps. Uncontested auction.


......................AKT
......................AKQT42
......................93
......................84
Q976.....................................8542
8653......................................97
6...........................................Q8742
Q652.....................................J7
......................J3
......................J
.....................AKJT5
.....................AKT93

1♣ - 1♥
2♦ - 2♥
3♣ - 3♠
4♣ - 6N

Translation:
S: 16+, N: 9+ points, 5+ hearts, GF
S: 5+ diamonds, unbalanced, N: 6+ hearts
S: 4+ clubs, N: 4+ controls, 4th suit, asking partner to bid NT with a spade stopper or support hearts on a 2 card suit
S: no spade stopper, 0-1 hearts, N: to play

[Kungsgeten]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 10:03, said:

You are South and dealer. V vs NV. Imps. Uncontested auction.


......................AKT
......................AKQT42
......................93
......................84
Q976.....................................8542
8653......................................97
6...........................................Q8742
Q652.....................................J7
......................J3
......................J
.....................AKJT5
.....................AKT93

Pass 2000

pass (0-7 / 17+) - 1C (0-7 / 17+); I think north would upgrade to 17+
2C (17+, natural and 0-3 spades) - 2D (INV+ relay);
2H (4+ diamonds) - 2S (GF relay);
2N (5-5 minors) - 3C (relay);
3S (2-1-5-5) - 4C (ace ask);
4NT (2 aces, majors / minors) - 6NT;

This is an ugly auction. The system is bad in handling two strong hands meeting (not even sure that 2S would be a GF relay in this auction, but I guess so). For now we do not use spiral cue, and the Viking-style asking bid gets us very high (5m would have been to play after 4NT).

[straube]

 hrothgar, on 2013-January-27, 11:56, said:

This one is kinda involved

1♣ - 1♦ 1♦ = GF
1♥ - 1♠ 1♥ = prefers to ask. 1♠ = lots of hand types
1N - 2♥ 1N = relay 2♥ = single suited with hearts
2♠ - 3♦
3♥ - 3♠ 3♠ = 6322 shape
4♦ - 5♣ 4♦ = terminator 5♣ = 11QP
5♦ - 5♥ 5♦ = Spiral scan 5♥ = AKQ in Hearts
5♠ - 6♣ 5♠ = Spiral scan 6♣ = 1/2 in Spades, nothing in Clubs
6♦ - 6♥ 6♦ = Spiral scan 6♥ = nothing in Diamonds
7♥

The key choice is the decision to ask with 1H rather than show
Opener has a minimum hand, but a 5-5-2-1 won't be resolved until 3♠ so opener prefers to ask
After determining shape, Opener prefers 4♥ to 3N
Relay responder has more than enough shape to continue on past the sign off

If opener decides to show rather than ask (which is a legitimate choice) we'll only reach 6♥

I'm concerned about this auction because the key decision to retain captaincy paid off in a huge way when it came time to finding the grand. Usually it pays to show a distributional hand when you have the opportunity because so often pd has a balanced hand and does better deciding strain and fit. For instance, in this auction South chooses to play 4H...but it's really a guess on his part. Responder could have AQT of spades and Qxxxxx of hearts.

For SCREAM I reverse relayed and the only difference in the auction is that opener patterned out at 3H. So for fellow relayers, do you think both Moscito and SCREAM should reverse relay this hand? Or do you think that the difference between patterning out at 3H and 3S is enough of a difference to support retaining captaincy in Moscito only?

Richard, interested in your input as well.

[straube]

 nige1, on 2013-January-27, 13:01, said:

Jasmine ♣. IMO here, ♥ are a "good" suit, so the likely auction is...
North ♠ AKT ♥ AKQT42 ♦ 93 ♣ 84: __ 3♦ 3♠ 4♠ 5♣
South ♠ J3 ♥ J ♦ AKJT5 ♣ AKT93: 1♣ 3♥ 4♥ 4N 7♥

• 1♣ = Art, 16+.
• 3♦ = Transfer, good long suit.
• 3♥ = Key-ask.
• 3♠ = Art, 0/3 keys.
  
• 4♥ = Waiting.
• 4♠ = ♠K
• 4N = Trump ask
• 5♣ = ♥Q but nothing else.
• 7♥ = Punt.

Alternatively, if North is unwilling to emphasise ♥ with only six,
North ♠ AKT ♥ AKQT42 ♦ 93 ♣ 84: __ 1♠ 2♠ 3♠ 5N
South ♠ J3 ♥ J ♦ AKJT5 ♣ AKT93: 1♣ 2♦ 3♣ 4♣ 6N

• 1♣ = Art, 16+.
• 1♠ = Art, 8+, 4+ ♥, denies 4+ ♠.
• 2♦ = Nat
• 2♠ = Art, 5+ ♥
• 3♣ = Nat
• 3♠ = Art, 6+ ♥
• 4♣ = Nat
• 5N = Pick a slam
• 6♦ = Nat
  
• 6N = Nat (or pass).
  

I know I'm being the police on this deal, but I think you should go with the second auction. It's a really nice suit but to preempt the strong club opener so much from showing his own hand...honestly I think Justin has the right idea of bidding hearts over and over while letting opener show his suits. If opener had a good minor suit you could easily miss 7m by taking up so much space.

The key to this deal is the HJ and I think we have to resist the temptation to have South captain the hand unless that's how the system works. For example, this is how RobF's system works and probably most relay systems that don't have reverse relays...TOSR etc.

Are you comfortable with the second auction or would you like to make a case for the first? Thanks

[dake50]

Thanks hrothgar.
Changed my structure to enable a delayed H-ask, as you showed.

[nige1]

 straube, on 2013-January-27, 21:43, said:

I know I'm being the police on this deal, but I think you should go with the second auction. It's a really nice suit but to preempt the strong club opener so much from showing his own hand...honestly I think Justin has the right idea of bidding hearts over and over while letting opener show his suits. If opener had a good minor suit you could easily miss 7m by taking up so much space.

The key to this deal is the HJ and I think we have to resist the temptation to have South captain the hand unless that's how the system works. For example, this is how RobF's system works and probably most relay systems that don't have reverse relays...TOSR etc.

Are you comfortable with the second auction or would you like to make a case for the first?

I'm comfortable with Straube's assessment. Whether to treat a 6-card suit as worth emphasising is close.

On hand 16, under pressure from Straube, I admitted that a similar jump-transfer could be as weak as six-cards e.g. ♣ AQJTxx. Hence, a jump transfer on ♥ AKQTxx on hand 19 is possible. I agree, however, that it is a close judgement decision and it is hard to avoid being influenced by knowledge of both hands.

The Jasmine 1♣ opener is usually expected to accept the transfer with a small singleton. With a void, the 1♣ opener can suggest his own suit. With a suit playable opposite a void, responder can re-transfer.

[straube]

 nige1, on 2013-January-27, 22:55, said:

I'm comfortable with Straube's assessment. Whether to treat a 6-card suit as worth emphasising is close.

On Your hand 16, under pressure from Straube, I admitted that a similar jump-transfer could be as weak as six-cards e.g. ♣ AQJTxx. Hence, a jump transfer on ♥ AKQTxx on hand 19 is possible. I agree, however, that it is a close judgement decision and it is hard to avoid being influenced by knowledge of both hands.

The Jasmine 1♣ opener is usually expected to accept the transfer with a small singleton. With a void, the 1♣ opener can suggest his own suit. With a suit playable opposite a void, responder can re-transfer.

If your system calls for a jump transfer, then you should benefit when you have a suit that meets your requirement. On bd 16 I was concerned that you hadn't guaranteed a 7th club (which was pretty much the 13th trick). So if you were entitled to jump to 2S on bd 16 with only a 6-cd suit, then it seems like you are entitled to do so on this deal. You get to win sometimes

So I'll put you down for 7H if that's ok with you.