[relknes]

Most people play 2N with a 2 point range, whether it is 20-21 or 21-22 or whatever, but I have heard that some advanced pairs (Itallian, I believe) used a 3 point range without much trouble.
So how much of a disadvantage is it to use a 3 point range, like 19-21? I realize that you will have to be happy landing in game with 19 oposite 5, and not landing in game with 21 oposite 4, but how much of a problem is that?

[1eyedjack]

I don't think that you have identified the only problem with the method.

Another possible problem is ending in a no-play 2NT opposite a bust (possibly doubled by protective seat at matchpoints) when others get left in 1-suit.

Another possible problem is that other pairs who get to the same level via 1x-1y-2N have exchanged valuable information prior to the 2N bid which will improve the accuracy of the subsequent auction contrasted with those who start with 2N.

As against that, such players do have the advantage that their 1x-1y-2N sequence is freed up for non-natural purposes. But then again if you play transfer Walsh, much of the time you get the opportunity to rebid 1C-1?-1N on a powerhouse, so get to show the hand a level lower, exchange information on the way, and still have 1x-1y-2N available for non-natural purposes such as the Bridge World hand of death.

So speaking personally, I am not a fan of a 3-point range 2N opener, nor indeed for a 2N opener whose lower bound is less than 21. But I agree with the OP that the method does have a following among strong players, so I am probably missing something.

[Cyberyeti]

We play good 19-21, with bad 19 being bid as 18. This works fairly well for us in the context of a weak no trump 4M4m system, and frees up 1x-1y-2N as GF unbalanced. Bad 19 opposite non stellar 6 rarely makes game so we don't feel forced to over invite when we extend the range of our 1N rebid.

In the slam zone, you're potentially a bit better having bid 1x-1y-2N, but in 2N or 3N you've given a lot less away to the defence.

The other thing to know is that if you play 19-21, very few of these will be 21 (I think I read somewhere that if you played 20-22, nearly half are 20), so there is no real pressure particularly NV at teams or at pairs to bid game on 5, 20 opposite 5 is often no picnic with the lack of entries to dummy.

[ArtK78]

With my regular partner we play a light opening system. When our opening bids are 10+ (1st & 2nd seats nonvul) our opening 2NT is 19-21 (20-21 in other situations).

We have had no problems with the 3 point range. I never considered it to be much of an issue.

[Fluffy]

I haven't tried it, the 3 point range doesn't bother me, but opening it more frequently does

[relknes]

The main concerns people seem to have are opening it more frequently, and the loss of info instead of 1m-1x-2N. However, I am thinking of applying it within a strong club context, so I prefer to open 2N than have the bidding go 1♣-1♦-2N.
It is good to know that the 3 point range isn't such an issue. Thanks all, for your replies... and if I have misunderstood something, please feel free to correct me.

[cherdano]

Isn't that what Meckwell play?

[Siegmund]

Enough of a disadvantage that "everybody" playing SA or 2/1 who played 20-22 ten or twenty years ago is now playing 20-21.

Adding in the 19s will indeed cause it to come up more often, and cause you to go down in 2NT more often as well as have less precision in your slam auctions after 2NT.

It may be worth it, in a system where you are gaining something significant by putting the balanced 192s here. (If all you are doing is taking flat 19s out of your natural 1-bids, no.)

[mgoetze]

cherdano, on 2013-January-23, 22:51, said:

Isn't that what Meckwell play?

I thought they play a natural 2NT opener but they might of course have changed it.

[Zelandakh]

cherdano, on 2013-January-23, 22:51, said:

Isn't that what Meckwell play?

The last I checked they play 19-20 in 1st/2nd and NV 3rd; and 20-21 4th and Vul 3rd. They might have changed it since then of course.

[FrancesHinden]

The standard English range is 20-22, and I think that is still the case.
I don't like lowering it to 19-21 because you open it so often. Personally I downgrade a lot of 20s into an opening 1-bid and play "good 20 to a bad 22" (which is really a two-point range: 20.5 - 21.5)

[pigpenz]

some pairs play 2NT 21-23
on balanced 18-20 open one and rebid 2NT
actually makes some sense if partner cant respond to one your probably in right place

[campboy]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-22, 03:02, said:

The other thing to know is that if you play 19-21, very few of these will be 21 (I think I read somewhere that if you played 20-22, nearly half are 20), so there is no real pressure particularly NV at teams or at pairs to bid game on 5, 20 opposite 5 is often no picnic with the lack of entries to dummy.

FWIW just over half of 20-22 balanced are 20, and just under half of 19-21 balanced are 19.

[JLOGIC]

Opening 2N a lot doesn't sound so bad to me

[neilkaz]

JLOGIC, on 2013-January-24, 12:42, said:

Opening 2N a lot doesn't sound so bad to me

Provided that you have good methods to continue and can search for minor suit slams, often after searching for a major suit slam. Of course, at your level and with top W/C partnerships you have these methods, but most typical club level players don't.

[JLOGIC]

Most typical club players don't have good slam bidding methods if they open 1m and rebid 2N either.

There is a lot of value in opening 2N and playing a normal game from the right side having given away no info about your minor suit lengths, possibly about your major suit lengths if partner hasn't staymaned, possibly about what 4 card major partner has to the opening leader if they have staymaned, possibly about whether you have 3 or 4 trumps if your partner transfers and bids 3N and you correct to 4M etc.

There is also a lot of value in not letting them overcall and get lead directors in your auction.

I know everyone calls 2N opening the slam killer and how it sucks but personally I think its pretty good on a majority of hands which are just game hands. This is esp true at MP.

[Phil]

Not a fan of 19-21, but sometimes a 19 pointed NT is foisted on you because of light openers or other system issues. However, I would much rather play 19-20 than 19-21, since 3 point ranges are awkward due to no invite.

There are a few on Bridgewinners that have loaded the 18-19 or 20-21 range onto a 2♣ opener. Sometimes you can stop in 2M with these hands. Playing GF Jacoby works well with a heavy 2N opener like 22-23 or something like that.

[fromageGB]

I think the disadvantages of a 3 point range have been explained, and I much prefer the accuracy of 1C 1x 1/2NT compared with 2NT that leaves responder in the dark (and unable to determine the best contract) as much as it does the opponents.

In the old days I used to play a 19/20 as many did here, and now much prefer the minimum to be 20 or 21. But 21 doesn't work if your partners don't like responding to 1♣ on a 5 count. I think that determines the minimum. "What is the maximum you can have with a balanced hand for opening 1♣ where you can miss game if responder passes with a maximum pass balanced hand?"