Both vul, matchpoints, my partner bid 1H, overcalled 1S. I held:
AQ10x-A109xx-Kxx-x
We were playing very basic Standard American, with straight Blackwood, no control-showing cue-bids.
I looked at my hand, and said to myself that in spite of 13 hcp, this was worth a slam try. This was my partner's first time playing ftf duplicate, and he was playing a bit spooked (so, did I my first time a couple of months ago!), so I knew I would have to take the initiative. I went to 4NT, planning to go to 6H if partner showed 2 aces (hoping for more than a minimum as well as the two aces), which he did. Partner had a minimum, contract was down one, and it might have made with a good guess (think it was a diamond finesse, but it was late last night).
Questions:
What would you have done:
1) Under the actual circumstances of partner and bidding system
2) Playing a more sophisticated version of SA
3) Playing "standard" 2/1
4) Playing 2/1 with all the gadgets you want
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Unsuccessful Slam Try
#2
Posted 2003-June-13, 08:17
Hi Peter
1. under the circumstances I had bid 4 NT and 6 NT later. Maybe 6 Heart is better, but my big spade values, my partner and my mood wants me to play the hand.
2. With a good pd and some gadgets:
1 H (1S) 2 NT p
2 NT is Truscott and shows an invitational or better hand with 4+ Hearts. (You needs this little piece of cake in competition to be able to jump to 3 Heart with "nothing" besides the LOTT)
After 2 NT, I cannot see, how the later bidding will proceed.
But I know, whatever he shows me, if he has 2 from 3 key cards, I am in 6 Heart.
If he shows maximum, I may play 6 NT in a pair event.
I don`t understand the questions about 2/1, because I see no difference here.
So I have to wait for others to answer these questions.
Kind Regards
Roland
1. under the circumstances I had bid 4 NT and 6 NT later. Maybe 6 Heart is better, but my big spade values, my partner and my mood wants me to play the hand.
2. With a good pd and some gadgets:
1 H (1S) 2 NT p
2 NT is Truscott and shows an invitational or better hand with 4+ Hearts. (You needs this little piece of cake in competition to be able to jump to 3 Heart with "nothing" besides the LOTT)
After 2 NT, I cannot see, how the later bidding will proceed.
But I know, whatever he shows me, if he has 2 from 3 key cards, I am in 6 Heart.
If he shows maximum, I may play 6 NT in a pair event.
I don`t understand the questions about 2/1, because I see no difference here.
So I have to wait for others to answer these questions.
Kind Regards
Roland
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#3
Posted 2003-June-13, 09:20
Hi pbleighton,
Playing matchpoints with a pick-up partner (I define pickup partner as anyone you have very few bidding agreements with, regardless of how many times you have played together), you should probably just blast merrily along with a 4NT RKCB bid Your chance of finding the grand slam when partner holds some control rich minimum like the following are too rare to worry about:
xx KJxxx Ax Axxx
The alternative to the brute force trotting out of 4NT with a partner like you describe is the straight foward 2S cue-bid (don't use 2NT as limit raise or better with a pickup partner like you described, you probably will be left there). At least over 2S you are in a game force situation (yes... when I play with my regular partners, 2S is shows a fit and is not game force, but we are talking about with no specific agreements). What you are hoping is to get some cooperation from your partner. He may get very slammy on his own, in which case you should start thinking potential grand slam...something you can't do with the straight forward jump to 4NT.
I would want to be in six hearts opposite any hand where partner has the two of the three missing controls (assuming he didn't pscyhe). It is difficult to imagine that it can go down (you were right to think slam). I guess you could construct a few hands where partner has two of the three missing key cards and slam will not make.
What would I have done:
1) Under the actual circumstances of partner and bidding system
Bid 4NT. BTW with regards to Roland's bidding 6NT.... I have no intention of playing 6NT, its 5/6/7 hearts for me. I am not playing in NT with a known 10 card fit (despite the fact that I am the second biggest hand hog known to man). The reason is the possibility of gaining two tricks by ruffing spades in partner's hand or two or three tricks by ruffing clubs in mine (ruffing in both hands only gains extra tricks from one... say all your hearts are high. A full cross ruff gains five ruffs in one hand. The five ruffs you take the other were winners anyway. )
2) Playing a more sophisticated version of SA
not sure what this means. You could, if want make a negative double. With four spades, you know your partner is not passing.IF he rebids 3H's you can attribute a 6th heart to his hand. If he jumps showing extra values, you are so happy. Over his 3C/3D however, you are stuck for a useful bid. 3H is not forcing, 3S sounds like an attempt to get to 3NT, 4NT is no longer RKCB for hearts. So I would rule out double. If 4C was splinter, you might try that followed by 4S over partners almost sure 4H rebid. Also not sure where you are going with that one. Your partner will know about your spade stopper and short club. Maybe he can trott out the blackwood now (4S certainly invites him to do so).
For me, however, 4C would be a "fit jump" showing hearts and clubs. So if not 2S game force cue-bid, I am back to 4NT.
3) Playing "standard" 2/1
Same as #2
4) Playing 2/1 with all the gadgets you want
Here, I am with Roland. I with my regular partner I would bid 2NT - limit raise or better. Partner will show interest in game or not. If not, I will bid 3S showing strong slam interest. If partner wants game, he will cue-bid on the way just in case I have extra which I do... but if he "accepts" the game try (or better), we both know you are going to be at least slam. The question is after some creepy little disappointing auction like....
1H-(1S)-2N-(P)
3H -(P) -3S -(P)
4H -(P) - ?
Do you just say, ok, I tried and pass. If you are going to blast with blackwood anyway, the only advantage of this slower way to blackwood is that you are sure you don't want to bid the grand slam.
I play SERIOUS 3NT on this auction, as does my regular partner. Responder has shown slam interest with his bids, and opener has a known minimum. As opener I would bid 3NT with a control rich minimum ("mini-serious"...lol) and just cue-bid my club control (A/K/short) with a minimum-minimum, or bid LTTC with a Diamond (or spade control). If partner bids 4H over my 3S here, I would begin to suspect that he pscyhed or held something really un-useful like.
S-xx H-KQJTx D-QJT C-QJT
If you don't know Serious 3NT and LTTC, you owe it to yourself to go read up on them. I like them so much, the fact is, that if my partner wasn't playing Serious 3NT, I would just blast with 4NT anyway, because without it, I would not be able to pass the 1H/(1S)/2NT/3H/3S/4H auction given above.
Ben
Playing matchpoints with a pick-up partner (I define pickup partner as anyone you have very few bidding agreements with, regardless of how many times you have played together), you should probably just blast merrily along with a 4NT RKCB bid Your chance of finding the grand slam when partner holds some control rich minimum like the following are too rare to worry about:
xx KJxxx Ax Axxx
The alternative to the brute force trotting out of 4NT with a partner like you describe is the straight foward 2S cue-bid (don't use 2NT as limit raise or better with a pickup partner like you described, you probably will be left there). At least over 2S you are in a game force situation (yes... when I play with my regular partners, 2S is shows a fit and is not game force, but we are talking about with no specific agreements). What you are hoping is to get some cooperation from your partner. He may get very slammy on his own, in which case you should start thinking potential grand slam...something you can't do with the straight forward jump to 4NT.
I would want to be in six hearts opposite any hand where partner has the two of the three missing controls (assuming he didn't pscyhe). It is difficult to imagine that it can go down (you were right to think slam). I guess you could construct a few hands where partner has two of the three missing key cards and slam will not make.
What would I have done:
1) Under the actual circumstances of partner and bidding system
Bid 4NT. BTW with regards to Roland's bidding 6NT.... I have no intention of playing 6NT, its 5/6/7 hearts for me. I am not playing in NT with a known 10 card fit (despite the fact that I am the second biggest hand hog known to man). The reason is the possibility of gaining two tricks by ruffing spades in partner's hand or two or three tricks by ruffing clubs in mine (ruffing in both hands only gains extra tricks from one... say all your hearts are high. A full cross ruff gains five ruffs in one hand. The five ruffs you take the other were winners anyway. )
2) Playing a more sophisticated version of SA
not sure what this means. You could, if want make a negative double. With four spades, you know your partner is not passing.IF he rebids 3H's you can attribute a 6th heart to his hand. If he jumps showing extra values, you are so happy. Over his 3C/3D however, you are stuck for a useful bid. 3H is not forcing, 3S sounds like an attempt to get to 3NT, 4NT is no longer RKCB for hearts. So I would rule out double. If 4C was splinter, you might try that followed by 4S over partners almost sure 4H rebid. Also not sure where you are going with that one. Your partner will know about your spade stopper and short club. Maybe he can trott out the blackwood now (4S certainly invites him to do so).
For me, however, 4C would be a "fit jump" showing hearts and clubs. So if not 2S game force cue-bid, I am back to 4NT.
3) Playing "standard" 2/1
Same as #2
4) Playing 2/1 with all the gadgets you want
Here, I am with Roland. I with my regular partner I would bid 2NT - limit raise or better. Partner will show interest in game or not. If not, I will bid 3S showing strong slam interest. If partner wants game, he will cue-bid on the way just in case I have extra which I do... but if he "accepts" the game try (or better), we both know you are going to be at least slam. The question is after some creepy little disappointing auction like....
1H-(1S)-2N-(P)
3H -(P) -3S -(P)
4H -(P) - ?
Do you just say, ok, I tried and pass. If you are going to blast with blackwood anyway, the only advantage of this slower way to blackwood is that you are sure you don't want to bid the grand slam.
I play SERIOUS 3NT on this auction, as does my regular partner. Responder has shown slam interest with his bids, and opener has a known minimum. As opener I would bid 3NT with a control rich minimum ("mini-serious"...lol) and just cue-bid my club control (A/K/short) with a minimum-minimum, or bid LTTC with a Diamond (or spade control). If partner bids 4H over my 3S here, I would begin to suspect that he pscyhed or held something really un-useful like.
S-xx H-KQJTx D-QJT C-QJT
If you don't know Serious 3NT and LTTC, you owe it to yourself to go read up on them. I like them so much, the fact is, that if my partner wasn't playing Serious 3NT, I would just blast with 4NT anyway, because without it, I would not be able to pass the 1H/(1S)/2NT/3H/3S/4H auction given above.
Ben
--Ben--
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