[dustinst22]

Imps, W/R

Kxx -- AKQTxx KQxx

You may disagree with the opening, but this was the auction

(P) 1♦ (1♥) 3♦ (P)

?

[lalldonn]

Simple 5♦. Even if partner has an ace we haven't made slam yet.

[aguahombre]

How can we disagree with the 1D opening?? A strong club system was not specified, nor any other gadget specially devised for this hand.

5♦ is fine, assuming 3D is a mixed or weak raise..also not specified. If 3♦ is invitational (some people still do that), partner must have the black cards to make a slam try automatic.

[dustinst22]

aguahombre, on 2013-January-03, 12:55, said:

How can we disagree with the 1D opening?? A strong club system was not specified, nor any other gadget specially devised for this hand.

5♦ is fine, assuming 3D is a mixed or weak raise..also not specified. If 3♦ is invitational (some people still do that), partner must have the black cards to make a slam try automatic.

Well I know some people might open this 2C, though I think it's sick to do so.

3D is preemptive.

[Cyberyeti]

dustinst22, on 2013-January-03, 13:22, said:

Well I know some people might open this 2C, though I think it's sick to do so.

3D is preemptive.

Yes but that doesn't preclude a slam, Ax, xxxx, xxxxx, xx is a cold 6♦,Ax, xxxxx, xxxx, Jx is also excellent. Remember opps haven't raised hearts so partner is probably carrying 4+.

I'd bid 3♥ or if I had the agreement whichever of 4♥/N was exclusion.

[aguahombre]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-03, 13:53, said:

Yes but that doesn't preclude a slam, Ax, xxxx, xxxxx, xx is a cold 6♦,Ax, xxxxx, xxxx, Jx is also excellent. Remember opps haven't raised hearts so partner is probably carrying 4+.

I'd bid 3♥ or if I had the agreement whichever of 4♥/N was exclusion.

I think the reasoning about hearts might apply to the Spade suit, as well. It seems antipercentage to place partner with a spade doubleton...whether ace or no ace..and we still won't know after probing. But, then I am very conservative (i.e., Wus).

[ggwhiz]

Depending on your style for the 3♦ pre-empt vs a single raise, I'm bidding 5♦ and expect to go down quite often.

Cyberyeti's example hand while on the edge is too good for us to pre-empt an opener that might be THIS good.

[dustinst22]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-03, 13:53, said:

Yes but that doesn't preclude a slam, Ax, xxxx, xxxxx, xx is a cold 6♦,Ax, xxxxx, xxxx, Jx is also excellent. Remember opps haven't raised hearts so partner is probably carrying 4+.

I'd bid 3♥ or if I had the agreement whichever of 4♥/N was exclusion.

I bid 3H, but am now convinced I should have just bid 5D.

Partner bid 4D and showed up with

J xxx xxxxx AJxx


I felt he should have cued 4C. Now I'd bid 4H, and a 4S bid by him I think should get us there.

Guess the way I look at it is that his hand is much better than most 3D bids, so you owe me a cue bid.

Was really expecting a barrage of heart bidding by the opps.

[Cyberyeti]

dustinst22, on 2013-January-03, 15:24, said:

I bid 3H, but am now convinced I should have just bid 5D.

Partner bid 4D and showed up with

J xxx xxxxx AJxx


I felt he should have cued 4C. Now I'd bid 4H, and a 4S bid by him I think should get us there.

Guess the way I look at it is that his hand is much better than most 3D bids, so you owe me a cue bid.

Was really expecting a barrage of heart bidding by the opps.

Partner should certainly have bid 4♣, 4♦ is absurdly bad.

[dustinst22]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-03, 15:57, said:

Partner should certainly have bid 4♣, 4♦ is absurdly bad.

His suggestion was I should bid 4C over 3D, not 3H.

[Thiros]

4♥. IMO, absent prior discussion, this should show what we have.

[ggwhiz]

dustinst22, on 2013-January-03, 15:24, said:

J xxx xxxxx AJxx

Wow! I admit to being from a different planet but if that's a pre-emptive raise, what do you do with bad hands?

[dustinst22]

ggwhiz, on 2013-January-03, 17:00, said:

Wow! I admit to being from a different planet but if that's a pre-emptive raise, what do you do with bad hands?

Good point.

Should 2D be this hand?

I think many play 2D as even worse...not sure what std is.

[Cyberyeti]

ggwhiz, on 2013-January-03, 17:00, said:

Wow! I admit to being from a different planet but if that's a pre-emptive raise, what do you do with bad hands?

Of course that's a preemptive raise, you might be facing 3 diamonds and a 12 count depending on exact system played. It is a wide range bid for anything shapely with diamonds but not worth a limit raise to 3.

Quote

His suggestion was I should bid 4C over 3D, not 3H.

3♥ is bigger than 4♣ which to me initially suggests a much worse hand and a suggestion for partner to evaluate the knowledge that you may be 5-5 in the minors as to whether he wants to save over 4/5M initially. I think 3♥ is a lot better than 4♣ in this auction, 4♣ suggests a spade holding is not what you want to find and ♣xx is bad while nothing could be further from the truth. Partner's really not going to evaluate AQx, xxx, xxxxx, xx anything like correctly if you bid 4♣.

The question is whether you agree 3♥ is FG opposite what might be a zero count, I play it as F1 so 4♦ is the weakest bid available. If you play it FG then 5♦
is weaker than 4 which shows some values.

[ggwhiz]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-03, 17:35, said:

Of course that's a preemptive raise, you might be facing 3 diamonds and a 12 count depending on exact system played. It is a wide range bid for anything shapely with diamonds but not worth a limit raise to 3.

What on earth does a 2♦ bid show? I have to assume with 5+ diamonds and no defence you have to pass?

[dustinst22]

ggwhiz, on 2013-January-03, 21:43, said:

What on earth does a 2♦ bid show? I have to assume with 5+ diamonds and no defence you have to pass?

Some play 2D and 3D as similar range with 3D being more distributional. Others play 2D as inverted still on in competition (which Im not much of a fan of).

[Cyberyeti]

ggwhiz, on 2013-January-03, 21:43, said:

What on earth does a 2♦ bid show? I have to assume with 5+ diamonds and no defence you have to pass?

2♦ if you don't play inverted still on is a 4 card raise, much the same as it is without competition if you don't play inverted raises with the lower range reduced a tad, maybe 3-8 but usually not a huge amount of shape. 3♦ tends to be a 5 card raise (or 4 diamonds and 5 clubs not good enough for a 3♣ fit bid) where you want to preempt a bit more, 0-7 ish.

You can play 2N as a preemptive raise also to split the range.

[gwnn]

ggwhiz, on 2013-January-03, 17:00, said:

Wow! I admit to being from a different planet but if that's a pre-emptive raise, what do you do with bad hands?

3♦. Sometimes your preempts are wide ranging. Your partner will have a hard time sometimes but so will opps. If you can't stomach this wide a range, it's still much better to have 3D as mixed-ish, because 5+ diamonds with no defence at all is quite a rare handtype.

[Phil]

lalldonn, on 2013-January-03, 11:51, said:

Simple 5♦. Even if partner has an ace we haven't made slam yet.

If partner has an ace, he shouldn't push this to slam.

4♥ seems perfect.

[Zelandakh]

Phil, on 2013-January-04, 12:02, said:

4♥ seems perfect.

Here's a question for you. If you were playing Kickback on in this auction, would 4NT be perfect?