[jjlango]

{comments}

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My partner opened with 3♠ and I go immediately to 6♠. We made 7 because the missing K♠ was a singleton.

[gordontd]

No, it's a poor slam that happens to make (it needs the trumps to have no losers, and the heart queen onside). I think you should just have bid 4♠.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2012-December-05, 03:41, said:

No, it's a poor slam that happens to make (it needs the trumps to have no losers, and the heart queen onside). I think you should just have bid 4♠.

Err no, 7 needs that, 6 needs either of them, take the heart hook first and ruff a club to see if an honour drops if it fails to know if you can safety play the trumps for one loser.

What does a normal 3♠ look like for you ?

KQJxxxx, xxx, xx, x ? I wouldn't fancy 6♠ much opposite that, even KQxxxxx, xx, Kxx, x is not good so I don't think you should bid it.

[billw55]

You got lucky

Agree just 4♠ is correct. Partner's hand is a little abnormal for a vulnerable preempt. Much more likely, he will have the ♠K but not the ♥A, in which case making 6♠ is very unlikely.

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-December-05, 04:37, said:

Err no, 7 needs that, 6 needs either of them, take the heart hook first and ruff a club to see if an honour drops if it fails to know if you can safety play the trumps for one loser.

Indeed. I'll blame it on the diagram being too small to see properly!

[P_Marlowe]

You got lucky.

You want to be there, but ...

Slam makes, because partner has max. HCP for his bid, and 7 from his 9 HCP are
controls out side his main suit.
He has the Ace, you are missing, he has the King in a suit you happen to have
Axx, and he has a singleton.

Depending on your agreementset, you could decide to invite.

Ask your self, how good the slam is, if partner
has

KQJTxxx
xx
xx
xx

You could argue, the hand is too weak for a 3 level preempt, or it is ok, if it
is too weak add a King or a Queen with two smalls.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jjlango]

Is there some sort of convention I could have used to find out if he had any stoppers in diamonds or hearts?

[Stephen Tu]

jjlango, on 2012-December-05, 12:27, said:

Is there some sort of convention I could have used to find out if he had any stoppers in diamonds or hearts?

Yes, although your hand isn't really strong enough to use these conventions. Some people play that over 3h/3s, non-game bids in new suits, e.g. 4d, are control-asking bids, partner can answer in steps, e.g. no control, 2nd round control (K/stiff), 1st round control (ace/void). You definitely need to be able to play game in the other major though, so 3s-4h is natural (ask with 3s-5h). 3h-4s *can* be played as control ask, since you can bid 3h-3s-?-4s to play in spades. All these bids though come up very rarely, and are fraught with danger, so only use them in a regular partnership, and probably only after you are well out of the beginner forum.

But your hand doesn't have enough tricks, you need help in *both suits*, which is not very likely; partner's hand is atypical, and asking about both would endanger your game bonus. See the example typical hands other people have listed, you don't really want to be in slam. Partner's 3M preempt is supposed to typically deliver 6 -6.5 winners, having 6-7 losers. You have 3 sure covers (the aces), a partial cover (the king), and a couple jacks that may or may not be worth anything. You should estimate that the K + two jacks = close to one ace, and the three card support to make a ten card fit is worth a partial cover too, it can save a loser some portion of the time if partner's trumps are bad. So it's a comfortable raise to 4, but to raise to 6 it's a couple winners short.

[jjlango]

If my partner and I were both expert players is there any way we could come safely come to 6S? I've heard of artificial systems like precision and am wondering if there's any bidding system that could safely set up this slam.

[Cyberyeti]

jjlango, on 2012-December-05, 14:15, said:

If my partner and I were both expert players is there any way we could come safely come to 6S? I've heard of artificial systems like precision and am wondering if there's any bidding system that could safely set up this slam.

Yes, you open 1♠ as we would then it's easy after 3♠ it's blast (via keycard or not) or sign off really.

[Zelandakh]

jjlango, on 2012-December-05, 14:15, said:

I've heard of artificial systems like precision and am wondering if there's any bidding system that could safely set up this slam.

Before even considering artificial systems, I would strongly suggest you reach some agreements with your partner about what an opening preemptive bid should look like in different positions and vulnerabilities. If you choose to make preempts with a weak suit and lots of outside controls then you can expect it to be very difficult for partner to make good judgements on how to proceed. Basically, there is a trade-off between being able to preempt more often and being able to make good decisions after such an opening. If you take the advantages of such a wide-ranging style then you must also accept the disadvantages. It is essentially a matter of partnership agreement where the lines are drawn.