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Help Me Design as Natural a System as Possible Part 1: No opposition interference

#21 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2012-November-06, 10:15

Acol Basic seems to be the way to go with these beginners. This uses almost no artificial bids. This is what I managed to find for Acol-Basic:
1 NT = 12-14 HCP, Stayman (interestingly no Jacoby Transfers)
1m-2NT = Forcing
Strong Jump-Shift Responses by an unpassed hand
Weak Jump-Shift Responses by a passed hand
2NT = 20-22 HCP, Stayman (no Jacoby Transfers)
Gambling 3NT (not sure if a beginner should be taught this)
Strong 2 Bids (archaic?)
Takeout Doubles played through 4
New Suit Response to Overcall is forcing for 1 round
Jump Raises are Invitational
Weak Jump-Shifts to Partner’s Overcall
Regular Blackwood

Once you move from Acol Basic to Acol Intermediate, the number of add-on's becomes quite significant. Must say though, I still liked the idea of doing something that other players without much experience in our local club were using quite effectively.
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#22 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-November-06, 10:35

IMO the most natural system I ever played was a home hashed version of precision.

4 card diamond, 5 card majors, 12-15 1N, basically only the club is artificial.
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#23 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-November-06, 13:28

View PostAntrax, on 2012-November-05, 21:53, said:

I don't know why people think new players are idiots. We don't know Bridge, but we do have brains, and there's nothing inherently difficult about transfers, unless you choose to first fill our heads with nonsense and then try to make us forget it, and suddenly transfers are difficult to remember and understand. [/rant]


Transfers are not difficult to understand. They are not suitable for beginners for other reasons.

People will feel more comfortable with a system that dictates that they bid what they have got. And it's not as though a system without transfers is unplayable. Players should incorporate conventions only when they know what problem they are trying to solve. Even if you think that new players "need" to play Jacoby Transfers because everyone else does, wait until they have been bidding naturally for a bit, and then tell them (or better, give them some prepared hands so they can see for themselves) some of the advantages of the artificial approach. Now they will understand what it is they are trying to accomplish.

View Postahydra, on 2012-November-06, 07:22, said:

Hmm... teaching beginners strong twos? Ugh. No doubt you'll be teaching them standard attitude as well. :P I hate this idea and really wish the EBU would switch their teaching materials to be 3 weak 2s or maybe Benji, since that's what most people play in clubs - why make new players learn an outdated system then have to learn another when they play in a club.


I agree that 3 weak Twos or Benji (whichever is more prevalent amongst the players these beginners will eventually have as partners) should probably be taught if strong twos are not popular in their locale.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#24 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2012-November-06, 13:30

View Post32519, on 2012-November-06, 10:15, said:

Must say though, I still liked the idea of doing something that other players without much experience in our local club were using quite effectively.


This is best, because your beginners will eventually need partners.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#25 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-November-07, 02:42

View Post32519, on 2012-November-06, 10:15, said:

1m-2NT = Forcing
Weak Jump-Shift Responses by a passed hand
Takeout Doubles played through 4

1m - 2NT is usually played as 10-12 with side suit stops. That is certainly what I learnt as a beginner.
Jump shifts by a passed hand are played as fit jumps, a maximum pass with support and a side suit. This is the only way of forcing partner to bid again so important.
Negative doubles are more commonly played through 2 by beginners, or 3 by intermediates. 4 is better than this of course. An interesting idea is to teach beginners that all doubles are for takeout and then add exceptions to this later (after a preempt, with a fit, etc). This is certainly better than teaching that doubles are penalty unless on an exception list.
(-: Zel :-)
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