[diana_eva]

Playing vs Garozzo and Primavera. You don't know your p, but you can hope he didn't get into that game by accident (like me, lol).

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How do you bid now? No agreements at all. You have a 2/1 CC loaded but doesn't include anything about multi.

This is how it went at our table:

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1) Is there some "expert standard" here? What is the most common defense vs multi if you just happen to land in an expert game and don't have any specific agreements?
2) I wanted to bid 4S really bad, I felt we were being robbed of our vul game, but assumed my partner's x was telling me to stop bidding. So i listened. Is this a wrong assumption? What can x mean besides "do not bid higher"?

This board cost us 16 IMPs when the other table found 6S. http://tinyurl.com/8ebd33y

[mr1303]

Your choices are pass or 3S. If I knew opponents were honest citizens, I would pass and double 3H for take-out. Against your opposition, this is risky (they might decide to go off in 50s in a 2/1 fit), so I try 3S. Not sure I get to 6S unless partner responds 4H as a cue.

[Hanoi5]

I think you should have passed 2♠.

[Codo]

If you pass 2 ♠ againstgood opps you may play there. South opens a multi and partner has a heart fit but nothing in spades. He KNOWS that you have a spade fit. So, to pass is ONE possible way for him to gain some imps- bidding 4 ♥ is the other.

I play X as take out of spades or a strong hand, so your hand surely qualifies for the second part.


This time, partner was VERY wrong with his bids: The opps showed a heart fit, he must introduce his spades.

[PhilKing]

I would like to ask West what he thought was happening, although it's pretty clear he didn't think anything at all.

N/S tried a bit of smoke and mirrors, but it was plain to see what was going on if West had tried to reconstruct the missing hands.

[diana_eva]

OK I don't play any fancy defense vs multi but what I thought would be standard when nothing else discussed is x of artificial/relay bids shows that suit. So I intended my x of 2s to show spades, just like x of stayman or transfer is lead directing. Then x of 3nt was supposed to show strong hand, then I was planning to bid 4!s over their 4!h. But when partner doubled, I was not sure anymore. So I "obeyed" assuming x=stop bidding.

This is like the n-th time we get fried vs multi which seems very strange to me. It's pretty clear that I have some major flaws in understanding the way we should bid over multi and get partner to understand me. That is why I asked what would be the expert standard and how to show this hand. Maybe 3s directly, given the vulnerability, would be the most practical choice. I did not consider it, because I thought it would show a weaker hand with more spades.

[PhilKing]

diana_eva, on 2012-October-22, 09:33, said:

OK I don't play any fancy defense vs multi but what I thought would be standard when nothing else discussed is x of artificial/relay bids shows that suit. So I intended my x of 2s to show spades, just like x of stayman or transfer is lead directing. Then x of 3nt was supposed to show strong hand, then I was planning to bid 4!s over their 4!h. But when partner doubled, I was not sure anymore. So I "obeyed" assuming x=stop bidding.

This is like the n-th time we get fried vs multi which seems very strange to me. It's pretty clear that I have some major flaws in understanding the way we should bid over multi and get partner to understand me. That is why I asked what would be the expert standard and how to show this hand. Maybe 3s directly, given the vulnerability, would be the most practical choice. I did not consider it, because I thought it would show a weaker hand with more spades.

I agree you are a bit strong for 3♠.

The recommended Rodwell defence in fourth seat is to double with a take-out double of either major, so you basically double with any decent hand unsuitable for other action. It's a little risky, but the theory is that South's next action tells partner which suit you were making a take-out double of.

There are some elements of ambiguity if South removes to a number of hearts, so partner's double is for take-out as well (this is more important when you are doubling 2♥ and South removes to 2♠).

If we are talking about what is standard, I think you made a take-out double. After all, what would you have done with a 1444 shape? But you had your bid either way and partner misread the subsequent bidding, which made it clear that was not the case.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

PhilKing, on 2012-October-22, 10:04, said:

The recommended Rodwell defence in fourth seat is to double with a take-out double of either major, so you basically double with any decent hand unsuitable for other action. It's a little risky, but the theory is that South's next action tells partner which suit you were making a take-out double of.

I like above which implies you may have a penalty DBL if the weak-2M is your major.

What partner ( West ) has to realize is that the 3C! bid showed ♥. If South had a weak-2S hand he would have passed.

Thus, N/S have at least 9 cards in ♥ . That means West now knows you ( East ) have ♠ . So, West has to make some sort of Spade bid: 3S, 4S, or possibly 3H!
I think I'd choose 4S.... and East just might make a slam-try .
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What if North had only bid 2H ( p/c ) ... and East DBL - pass to West.
Now West does not know if East has ♥ or ♠.
In this case West should DBL = have the other Major ( ♠ ) .
If East's Major is ♥, he may want to pass or bid NT.
If East's Major is ♠ , he has an easier decision .

[phil_20686]

I would say std here is dble = t/o of spades or any strong hand. I sympathise with west, he thought that you had shown t/o of spades. Introducing xxxxx seems ludicrous.

However, when it comes back to you in 4H, x it should be clear to you that:

(1) The 3N bid was messing you around with a big neart fit.
(2) Souths suit is hearts.
(3) North did not have enough spades to raise 2S when south's suit is spades.

Which all point to bidding 4S. This is also in keeping with my general theme on these boards, that if you double with a strong hand with a suit, you have to be prepared to show your suit pretty much whatever. Otherwise you should just bid 3S the first time.

[Fluffy]

the main danger of passing 2♠ is not to be left there, is to have to act at the 4 level next round, d you think north will be a pussy?, no, he is gonna raise partner or perhaps make another psyche. Therefore act now.